A little "Opinion" guidance for the new guy!

Olskool

New Member
Hello all: I'm new to AK and have not been with any other listening groups so my questions may be weak and probably asked before. I have been bitten pretty hard by the audio bug and have fairly limited resources to spend on my addiction (I bet that is a first...). Currently I have been building my system but am ready to start moving up in performance. Very interested in Tubed AMPs and Pre-Amps but my audio sales shop keeps trying to push Solid State at me. My question is about tube reliability and if the warmth and quality of tube sound will be enough to warrant the Headache (if any)?

My interest is in Vinyl Stereo (jazz and Old School Pop). Not sure if this helps but my listening area is a 13 X 17 room space with 16 foot ceilings. The room is not closed in but opens into a foyer wall 15 feet further back. I am considering (based on a recommendation) Rogue Audio M-150 or 180 Mono Block with one of their Pre-amps. Your comments and opinions are appreciated. :scratch2:

Current system:
Yamaha RX -V2095 Integrated Surround Amp
Project 6 PerspeX Turn table
SumiKo Blackbird Cartridge
Project Tube Box SE II
Definitive Pro-Tower 400 Speakers
Project Speed Box II
Cardas Quadlink 5C Cables
Various Tweeks including VibraPod and Black Diamond Racing Cones
 
Welcome aboard.

I'm a 60+ year old Sansui lover, so I'm biased.

The first question you have to ask yourself is if you listen to the music or the system. In my case, I love the doo-wop and early rock 'n roll, so my Sansui/Klipsch Khorn setup does all I need. I have others, but my main system is the one (less the horns) that I bought in 1979. I have no desire to "upgrade".

From what I hear, tubes can require a little more maintenance and patience. I, myself, want to flip the switch and listen.

You're about to get every possible opinion there is, but the bottom line is to let your ears do the buying. Pretty much says it all.:thmbsp::thmbsp:
 
I'm a recent convert to tubes. I hear more music and less hifi. I've had good luck with a modern version of the ST-35 (EL-84 tubes) with 15 or so watts. But it depends on your speakers (I'm not familiar with yours). My basic rule is: buy used, if it doesn't work out sell it, if it does work out sell your current amp. Rogue has a good rep.
 
Thanks for your replies. Good advice to let my ears do the buying. It will be good to get multiple responses as they will probably present a few ideas or considerations I had not thought of. Mortsnets, thanks for the input about hearing the music and Rogue's reputation.
 
One of the nice things about tube amps, is that....to a degree....you can 'personalize' your sound, by some prudent....tube rolling.
Something you cannot do with SS gear.

Steve
 
If you want to hear tube amps and horns then consider visiting my house for a listen.

Send me a PM with contact info if you are interested in dropping on by.

I also have a stash of vintage spkr cabs sitting around that I play with from time to time.

Ron sends...
 
Thanks for the input guys. I think the personally perceived listening feature of tubes is what I am looking for. I'm not sure how you go about describing it but I bet you know it the moment you hear it. Ron I live in Texas but will make sure to drop you a PM when in the area of Columbus. Thank you for the invitation. I bet your sound is amazing.

So far I contacted Rogue and they told me their dealers in two of my nearby local areas (Austin and Houston) have either gone out of business or discontinued their line (they did not say this but I'm guessing it to be a logical possibility too). Neither situation bodes well for the company if they don't have affiliates in the Austin or Houston area which I would think would be major audiophile listener markets. I won't take much away from them though in this tough economy where a luzury and relatively expensive hobby like ours could be tough to sustain a business in. I'll keep looking to get demos before I plunk the $$$. Olskool
 
Rogue Audio seems like one of those "sure things" in contemporary tube hi-fi gear, so you might not want to give up on that just yet.

However, please understand that tubes are not inherently superior to transistors, where amplification is concerned, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. If you read some reviews of the super-expensive state-of-the-art tube and solid state equipment, usually reviewers are surprised at just how much alike they sound, rather than different. As for actual use and maintenance, it's not really that big a deal, unless you're going to get an amp with tubes that are very expensive to replace, or have some really annoying and complicated method for adjusting tube bias.

I've noticed at the lower end of hi-fi (where my system falls in the grand scheme of things, nice as it is), the stereotypical tube and solid state sounds are more audible. So, as with everything in this hobby, unless you're wealthy and can afford the best, you're going to have to decide which specific compromises you can live with. It's not as bad as it sounds. :)

FWIW you already have a very nice setup. I'm not familiar with your speakers - the only thing I see there that might be worth upgrading is the Yamaha integrated, which seems to be your line of thinking as well. Read some online reviews, like Stereophile.com, see if you can go audition some things in person (impossible for many of us), ask about specific things here, and put together a list.

And down the road, once you have a new amp and everything, consider trying some better power cords, if you haven't done so already. There are currently some ~$100/meter options that are supposed to be fantastic, and IME those little touches can me all the difference in the world, sometimes.
 
Thanks Mr. Lin. Sounds like you've been at this for a whle. The one thing I notice about this hobby is when you get into it, there are lots of choices. I suspect some are just mediocre and some more outstanding than others. This thought makes me wonder even more so about service reliabiity and ease of service once you own it.

The auditioning part is tough even here in Dallas. The big houses are usually spread far apart or their business hours don't seem to fit my work schedule (usually it is both - they are far apart and are not open when I am not working). You've given me some good input here to consider. My locally close, Hi End Stereo house keeps trying to get me to consider an Ayre System and I keep finding good reviews there about them. For some reason I have a sound in my mind that I believe I can achieve with tubes and want to continue to pursue it.

I can't find any Rogues to demo and may end up having to take a serious road trip (airline tickets and all) to check it out. For spending 5 or 6 k each for just starting with one or two box I think it becomes worth it to do some serious leg work before plunking down the cash. Speakers will be next in line after I get the amplification settled down. Thanks again for the input.
 
FWIW, Id buy the speakers before the amplification. Its easier to find an amp that will work well with your speakers, than it is finding speakers that will work well with your amp. The speakers account for most of that sound you will like (or not).. When you find a pair that suits you well, they will sound much better once you complement them with the right amp ;).
 
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Hi Olskool

Looking at your Hi-Fi your pretty damn well stacked and far from a newbie. Maybe the proper way is not going further but taking a vacation on the hardware OCD.

Invest your money in software - buy more and more music. I would focus on that if I were you.

Just my 0.02$ :)
 
It's great having a forum of serious audiophiles to compare notes with. The input you guys have given me is stuff I don't think I would likely have come up with on my own.

As far as my current system is concerned; thank you for the nice comments about the system. However I guess I am a bit jaded now because I have heard really good audio (especially from vinyl on a good system). Once I heard it I knew it could be within my reach. Can't reach too high but don't think it will take a ton of money to get improvement over where it sits now.

Now that I've said all that it's confession time; I went to one of the longtime favorite audio stores here in Dallas this weekend and after a full afternoon of listening and talking, found myself the proud new owner of a Audio Research VS115 Power Amp (wow, what a difference!). I included a NAD M5 CD player while i was going broke. I'm using the Yamaha RX- V2095 as a Pre-Amp. Finally, clarity, depth, blackness, sound stage and imaging all have real meaning to me! I am hearing music I've never heard from albums and a system I've owned for years. So excited about this I can burst! Now the only problem is I don't go to bed until all hours of the night!

Anyway, I am a happy camper...although when the funds get replenished the Audio Research Pre-Amp may accidentally follow me home.
 
Hi Olskool,

How is your ARC VS115 for the past couple of years? I just bought one a couple months ago. So far so good. Have you try the ARC VS115 with a tube Pre-Amp? Thanks
 
BadassBob has it right

Speakers are THE critical component. figure out which speakers will do what you need in your room and then look at amplification.

Going to audio shows (NYC is this weekend) is a good way to hear a lot of speakers in a relatively short time. The listening rooms are certainly not ideal but probably better than most bricks & mortar shops. My last speaker odyssey lasted about 14 months and incorporated three audio shows and many bricks & mortar shops - a few private living rooms, too. Took the wife along and she had a reasonably good time. I think we ended up with some really good speakers, too.

Good luck with your project!
Mike
 
It's great having a forum of serious audiophiles to compare notes with. The input you guys have given me is stuff I don't think I would likely have come up with on my own.

As far as my current system is concerned; thank you for the nice comments about the system. However I guess I am a bit jaded now because I have heard really good audio (especially from vinyl on a good system). Once I heard it I knew it could be within my reach. Can't reach too high but don't think it will take a ton of money to get improvement over where it sits now.

Now that I've said all that it's confession time; I went to one of the longtime favorite audio stores here in Dallas this weekend and after a full afternoon of listening and talking, found myself the proud new owner of a Audio Research VS115 Power Amp (wow, what a difference!). I included a NAD M5 CD player while i was going broke. I'm using the Yamaha RX- V2095 as a Pre-Amp. Finally, clarity, depth, blackness, sound stage and imaging all have real meaning to me! I am hearing music I've never heard from albums and a system I've owned for years. So excited about this I can burst! Now the only problem is I don't go to bed until all hours of the night!

Anyway, I am a happy camper...although when the funds get replenished the Audio Research Pre-Amp may accidentally follow me home.
Congrats!

Looks like a fine amp :thmbsp:
 
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