U-turn vs. Debut III a few months on...

The motor issues with the Pro-Ject have me taking it off my short list.

I think I will instead go with a fully tricked out Orbit. A much better deal and apparently a much better performer.
 
jasonsong86 said:
Thats basically why I returned my Debut Carbon. $400 table, hummy motor. My $75 cheap AT does not do that.
Click to expand...

Good point.

Come to think of it, my hilarious Sony EX-1M console does not have motor hum.

Also, the two other cheap console record players I've owned (record player on top, radio in the middle, double cassette deck on bottom) did not have motor hum.
 
What you are seeing is the benefits of a free market. If Pro-ject/Rega/Music Hall can't supply the buyers with a decent table to compete with the new competition's offerings in this price range then they will have to shape up or ship out. When I got back in to vinyl, I avoided the "you need to upgrade before you even get started" tables.
 
If my vintage turntable dies, I'm getting a U-turn. Heck, I'd take the Audio Technica 120 over the Project after reading about the hum issues
 
The only things that are keeping me away from U-turn are a cue arm, anti-skate, and marked balance weight. Otherwise I am getting one.
 
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Anti-skate is way over rated. For me, a cueing lever is way more important. But, then again, I'm an old fart with shaky hands.
 
From what I'v read U-Turn has been listening to their customers and anytime now will be offering an inexpensive cueing device that is a simple add on to the Orbit. As for the balance weight as with any turntable it's advisable to have a stylus gauge to double check the tracking weight, an inexpensive standard turntable accessory. Re antiskate not all tonearms have it and some of these are quite costly, some mfgs feel it's unnecessary, my Audio Technica ATP12T doesn't have antiskate. Keep in mind that the U-Turn Orbit was designed for the novice first time turntable owner so that the Orbit would be plug and play within a few minutes. On the other hand U-Turn is open to offering upgrades for the more advanced owner giving a choice of cartridges and platter with the Plus model while still keeping the price below that of the competition. IMO the best deal in under $1000 new turntables.
 
If I did not own 2 restored AR XA tables I would buy an Orbit in a heartbeat. I've looked at the Pro-jects and Regas and wouldn't waste my money.

Buy American when you can!
 
majick47 said:
From what I'v read U-Turn has been listening to their customers and anytime now will be offering an inexpensive cueing device that is a simple add on to the Orbit. As for the balance weight as with any turntable it's advisable to have a stylus gauge to double check the tracking weight, an inexpensive standard turntable accessory. Re antiskate not all tonearms have it and some of these are quite costly, some mfgs feel it's unnecessary, my Audio Technica ATP12T doesn't have antiskate. Keep in mind that the U-Turn Orbit was designed for the novice first time turntable owner so that the Orbit would be plug and play within a few minutes. On the other hand U-Turn is open to offering upgrades for the more advanced owner giving a choice of cartridges and platter with the Plus model while still keeping the price below that of the competition. IMO the best deal in under $1000 new turntables.
Click to expand...



I thought the cueing device was already available.
 
Lorenzo47 said:
That's fine. I am not the definitive authority. But, it is my opinion [that anti-skating is way over-rated] and I stand by it.
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For what it's worth, Edgar Villchur, the design genius behind the AR turntable, agreed with you. Harry Weisfeld of VPI is also no fan of anti-skate.
 
Has anyone have significant experience side by side comparing sound quality of U turn with a typical vintage 70's midfi/hifi turntable (Pioneer, Kenwood, Technics, etc) to see if the Orbit would be an advancement or lateral move sound wise?
 
iLUVanalog it's possible that the cueing device is now available for U-Turns being shipped or as an add on to already owned Orbits. From reading the U -Turn threads they have the Q Up as an option for end of record tonearm lift, maybe that's what your referring to. Bestbet is to check the U-Turn web site that they keep updated with the latest info. Also re antiskate Grado recommends using their cartridges with no antiskate.
 
Anti skate is good. Not having the option for it is bad. Heaps of stuff on the web - I'm talking tests, not opinion - attest to this.

As to U turn, they're a new company with a single product in a single market. They're producing a good turntable for the budget market. I wonder what their profit margin is, and whether it won't be their next product that makes or breaks them.
 
majick47 said:
iLUVanalog it's possible that the cueing device is now available for U-Turns being shipped or as an add on to already owned Orbits. From reading the U -Turn threads they have the Q Up as an option for end of record tonearm lift, maybe that's what your referring to. Bestbet is to check the U-Turn web site that they keep updated with the latest info. Also re antiskate Grado recommends using their cartridges with no antiskate.
Click to expand...
Interesting on the Grado recommendation. I run a ZF2/8MZ on my AR XA/Jelco 370 combo at 1.6 grams VTF and with barely .25 anti-skate. Thie A/S was set using a Shure test record that has a band with no grooves. When the stylus stays in one place, that's where I set my A/S - it varies with cartridge. I also run a Denon DL-110 and a Shure V15 Type IV with JICO SAS. On my other AR XA with the stock tonearm, there is no provision for anti-skate at all. It served me well for 40+ years.
 
majick47 said:
At its price point no one expects a Project Debut III to perform at a level with a high end table but then again it should be expected to perform well enough that owners don't have to rebuild it to play without hum/vibration from the motor.
Click to expand...

That is why my Debut III has been sitting on a shelf for the past 4 years. Couldn't get rid of the motor hum and once I heard it I couldn't unhear it. I can't even bring myself to sell it because it is flawed and I would feel like I'm cheating someone.
 
The concept behind the Project turntables seems to me to be the "Project Challenge". Project challenges the owners to fix their new turntable so it wont hum. Not everyone that buys a turntable needs a "challenge" or hum when new out of the box. Maybe the Projects are geared to those that like to tinker and enjoy investing in costly Project upgrades to try to get it right. A great business model if you can get away with it which they seem to have been doing so far but U-Turn will likely take a big bite out of Project as time goes by at least in the USA. Is Europe on the horizon for U-Turn?
 
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