Pioneer SA-9800 - what to do?

elektronror

Well-Known Member
I literally scored ( i think?) this minutes ago at an auction site for 510 Swedish crowns (75 american dollars). It is in a rough shape, the display and one knob is missing but otherwise complete. Owner claims it to be working but i will still do a serious renovation of it. One problem i'm having is finding things about it. No service manual and no service bulletins. I will get a schematic with it but i would like to plan what components to buy before getting it. Of course i won't order until i can check that the it actually is working but it's always nice to have a plan when it comes.

I need some answers to there questions :
Where can i find a display and knob? Is Ebay the easiest?
Anyone have a schematic/service manual/bulletins?
Are there more things that should be replaced as standard (besides capacitors)?
What can i expect from it? Never listened to a old Pioneer amplifier.
 
This'll get you started.

Owners and Service manual HERE

Scroll down to SA-9800. Get the Hi-Res version.

As for the parts, you can try EBAY or one of our sponsors listed below, Yesterday's Audio in New York State. Shipping might be a pain tho.

The flouroscan display in good condition are fairly rare. Expect most of them to be faded as to output. Nothing that can be done about them I believe. They just wear out and there are NO REPLACEMENTS, other than a donor unit.

Also it's a NonSwitching Amplifier, which are real tricky to work on and get right. Mark the Fixer is the ACKNOWLEDGED EXPERT on all things PIONEER, with ECHOWARS tied for 1st. Mark does more now than Echo on flat out restorations online, but Echo does some.

It's 100WPC, so it's no slouch. Never having heard one, I can't say one way or another. But it will probably sound close to a 1050 or 1080.

Have you any kind of background with regard to recaps??? We need to know so we can tailor our instructions.

Larry
 
Thanks! Tried ''Hifiengine'' but their site must be down or something.

So the display will be a pain in the ass to get. Hmm, just like i thought! Good it's just a cosmetic thing.

100WPC? Never heard and have no idea what that means. :)

I have repaired and recapped my CR-2020, a couple of Tandbergs amplifiers, old radios and so on so i am pretty confident i will get this as new again.

Luckily Mouser and Digikey ships to Sweden so parts should not be hard to find. Planning on Elna RFS in the signal path and Panasonic FC for the rest. Will see what i do with the four big power supply capacitors.
 
Thanks! Tried ''Hifiengine'' but their site must be down or something.

So the display will be a pain in the ass to get. Hmm, just like i thought! Good it's just a cosmetic thing.

100WPC? Never heard and have no idea what that means. :)

I have repaired and recapped my CR-2020, a couple of Tandbergs amplifiers, old radios and so on so i am pretty confident i will get this as new again.

Luckily Mouser and Digikey ships to Sweden so parts should not be hard to find. Planning on Elna RFS in the signal path and Panasonic FC for the rest. Will see what i do with the four big power supply capacitors.

100 WPC > 100 Watts of POWER delivered/coming out/being produced from Left & Right Channels!:thmbsp:
 
Should the power supply board that's fitted to the underside be replaced with all new components? I have found all the resistors and capacitors but only two transistors (2sk34 and 2sc945) but none of the rest or any diodes. Should i replace them and if so - with what?
 
There could (must) be a recap thread for the 9800, that would be good start to check for parts that needs to be replaced, look for marthefixers parts list on the 9800
 
I'm working on a fellow AK'ers 9800. The display is not cosmetic. It's tied to the left & right amplifier output. Since the display is missing, it may be that the entire amp is NG. You may be able to use the set as a pre amp/phono pre until you can source the needed parts.
 
I have found a couple of threads with some sort of parts list. Will go from there.

I thought the display just showed what the amp is doing. What source and VU meters. And when i look at the schematic i can see that it takes signal from the speaker selector but the speakers will still get the power. I can't find how the display actually has anything to do with the sound.
 
I got a couple of more questions.
Does anyone know what this costed when it was brand new?
Does the function switch knob look the same on all SA that has one?

I also forgot to mention that the shaft for the function switch is broken, the end is missing. But i do have an idea of how to fix it since the seller is providing another shorter shaft but with the exact same looking end.
 
I got a couple of more questions.
Does anyone know what this costed when it was brand new?
Does the function switch knob look the same on all SA that has one?

I've got a SA-9800,also a SA-8800 and the function knobs are the same (as are the other knobs/switches).
MRRP when new was $800.00
It truly is an excellent sounding amp,one of my faves.
 
Thanks. Anyone know if there are more SA:s that are the same?

Not a cheap one then. I really hope all my effort will pay of. It will fit perfectly with either my HPM-40 or my HPM-70, all i need then is a tape deck from the same series.
 
I have found a couple of threads with some sort of parts list. Will go from there.

I thought the display just showed what the amp is doing. What source and VU meters. And when i look at the schematic i can see that it takes signal from the speaker selector but the speakers will still get the power. I can't find how the display actually has anything to do with the sound.

The DISPLAY SHOWS what is coming out of the power amplifier. Just SHOWS. If the amp is misbehaving, and there is no meter indication, it's NOT the meter's fault, it is the amplifier's fault.


I am WORKING on the list as fast as I CAN.... You MUST LIST the parts lists you find BEFORE you use them, so they can be evaluated and corrected as needed. Just because there's a LIST, doesn't mean that it will WORK...

And if the AMPLIFIER is misbehaving, DO NOT BLINDLY charge on ahead. This is a NSA amp, you can cause enough damage that the OTHER channel will BE DAMAGED TOO. No kidding. I have SEEN it happen! I have had pieces of transistor fly past my nose in clouds of smoke. It is a VERY unforgiving circuit.

There are transistors in it that run hot enough to damage their solder joints, because of improper engineering choices. I KNOW how to fix this, but it takes TIME to translate the changes from the sx-3800/3900, sx-d5000/d7000 to this one.

Power Supply
awr-194 c2 220uf 80v ceb-axial 220 100 647-TVX2A221MCD
awr-194 c3 220uf 80v ceb-axial 220 100 647-TVX2A221MCD
awr-194 c4 47uf 10v cea 47 10 647-UPW1A470MDD6
awr-194 c7 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c8 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c9 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c10 47uf 63v cea 47 100 647-UPW2A470MPD1TD
awr-194 c13 2.2uf 50v cea 2.2 50 647-UPW1H2R2MDD
awr-194 c14 2.2uf 50v cea 2.2 50 647-UPW1H2R2MDD
awr-194 c15 100uf 35v cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD1TD
awr-194 c16 100uf 35v cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD1TD
awr-194 q1 2sc1735 pwr pass + 100v .5a .8w 512-KSC2690AYS to-126 30 to 300 hfe 130mhz to-92
awr-194 q2 2sc1735 pwr pass - 100v .5a .8w 512-KSC2690AYS to-126 30 to 300 hfe 130mhz to-92
awr-194 q3 2sa733 pwr darl + 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q4 2sa904 pwr darl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
awr-194 q5 2sk34 leave alone, unobtanium
awr-194 q6 2sk34 leave alone, unobtanium
awr-194 q7 2sc1914 fb ampl + 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSC1845FTA (ln)to-92 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
awr-194 q8 2sa904 fb ampl - 90v 0.05a 0.2w 512-KSA992FBU (ln)to-92 250hfe 150mhz to-92*c
awr-194 q9 2sc945 lv err amp + 50v 0.1a 0.25w 512-KSC2383YBU to-92L 600hfe 250mhz to-92
awr-194 q10 2sa733 lv err amp - 50v 0.15a 0.25w 512-KSA1013YBU to-92L 40-700hfe 180mhz to-92
awr-194 q11 2sd712 lv pass + 100 4a 30w 863-MJE15032G pnp to-220 55to300hfe 8mhz to-220
awr-194 q12 2sb682 lv pass - 100 4a 30w 863-MJE15033G pnp to-220 55to300hfe 8mhz to-220
awr-194 d1 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d2 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d3 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d4 sib01-02 power 200 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d5 xz-060 main zener 6v zener 0.5w 512-1n5233b
awr-194 d6 1s2473 fast 100v 0.1a 512-1n4148
awr-194 d7 1s2473 fast 100v 0.1a 512-1n4148
awr-194 d8 10E2 power 400v 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d9 10E2 power 400v 1a 512-1n4004
awr-194 d10 mz-177 shunt reg 17v zener 0.5w 512-1N5247B
 
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So the display is just cosmetic, good. But i sure want that blue glowing in the dark.

I have chosen this list to follow. Al tough the one you posted is a little different. But you seem to be a Pioneer Guru so i will pick your one.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=5287916&highlight=2sc1735#post5287916

I got the impression to take this amplifier very seriously and do it slowly and correctly with no messing about. I just hope that nothing is too damaged.

Should i get new 2SK34? I can get them from an auction site, the seller has 20 of them.

512-KSC2383YBU is not available on Mouser but KSC2383YTA is. Would that work?
 
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That IS my list (or checked by me), there are additional parts added to it, and do not get confused with parts numbers intended for other boards in the unit.

also remember that parts have gone obsolete on some of the older lists, and that the letters after the numbers (suffix) may be changed because that particular variation of that part number (bulk versus tape, gain codes or whatnot) isn't carried any longer (as well).

Ultimately almost all of these parts list trace back to me on one way or another, although some lists were started by others entering the raw data (and saving me a BUNCH of time, thank you all!!), and I added the substitutions, or corrected the few substitutions that didn't conform to the various rules of thumb I recommended...

which is why I ask for the lists to be published before use, I can spot old lists that have been updated (by me) for obsolete parts, lessons learned and so forth. Usually I'll throw the list (test order) at mouser before I'm finished to check that everything still agrees with their current catalog.
 
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Okay. Should i use the list in the other thread for the rest of the boards or do you have a better one? All of the stuff there is available at Mouser.
 
All these transistors replacements, are they exactly the same? Is the pins the same as original so that i don't have to turn them the other way and so on?
 
All these transistors replacements, are they exactly the same? Is the pins the same as original so that i don't have to turn them the other way and so on?

Replacements are NEVER assumed to be the same as the original. There are exceptions for TO-220 and larger power transistors, but with the little ones all bets are off.

You'd better wait until I find the transistor lead identification posts I did and post them.

If you don't it will bite you, because not even the pioneer manuals can be completely trusted for transistor pinouts.

I haven't checked, plus I don't know exactly which ones you are interpreting them as, so POST what you think, and I will check it (rather than to try anticipate which you are going to use). These lists don't happen instantly, and I don't drop everything else that's going on to do them, it gets in line and I get to it. I'm not a server farm, I have a heartbeat, need sleep and food. Other things including Doctors appointments all steal time away from me.
 
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I started comparing the transistors replacements for the power supply but all the data sheets i found for the old ones were in Japanese so that made no sense at all to me.
Then i tried the manual and it says the pinout but i have learned to not trust it to 100%.

I am going to use the power supply list you posted and for the rest of the boards the other list in the thread i posted.
And please, take the time you need. It will probably be a week until i get it and then i will do some testing etc. so no rush!

While i was comparing transistors i noticed that mine has two more in the power supply. Q13 and Q14. Q13-2sd712 and Q14-2sb682. They are found in the HG model.
I also found that the THD is less on the HG model. And that is says 850W power consumption, is that really true? Seems like a lot for just 100W per channel.
 
I list the transistors pin outs in my data, and at mouser, datasheet downloads are available for all of them. If you want to verify the symbol's orientation on the board, look to the schematic and the foil pattern as to what OTHER components are connected to whatever foil traces.

I STILL haven't been able to find my transistor installation posts, which would make everything quite clear. I AM looking.

p.s. I am also trying to ship an envelope to Singapore, and have trying since Saturday to get together an order (a small order) for Mouser myself...
when I can't even get breathing room to get breathing room (waiting for the mouser parts) you know it's getting hectic...
 
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