1010 not as warm sounding as a 737?

I got my 1010 back from the repair shop today and I'm more than pleased with the job done. However, I was a little taken off-guard by the sound. I was expecting a warm, punch mid-bass sound like my 737 has, but it is very neutral sounding. What I mean by that is that with only my SG-550 equalizer, it still seems a bit cold in its sound. I did notice it is considerably clearer with more crisp highs and when it did reproduce bass, it could go quite low without distortion- it just lacks that wonderful mid-bass my 737 has. I found I can get it to sound much better if I turn the loudness on and the low filter on (I have to do that when playing records or the woofers really start to dance!). My speculation, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that due to the much larger power handling, Pioneer voiced the 1010 differently and made them more neutral since it could extend higher and lower without distortion??? Is this normal for the 1010 to be less warm sounding than a 737 or 780?

Don't have the other two for comparison but mt 1010 sounds great, if the others are warmer then I would think it was their coloration and not the 1010's deficiency.

How does either compare to 5000a? Isn't that considered a warm sansui sound?

It sounds less warm than an SX-780? I wouldn't consider the 780 to be "warm" sounding at all (no offense; just my opinion)...I'd give the 1010 some time to settle in.

It sounds less warm than the Sansui I have too. Could it be possible that the new caps and that were installed need time to "work in" or something like that?

ethangsmith said:

It sounds less warm than the Sansui I have too. Could it be possible that the new caps and that were installed need time to "work in" or something like that?

Click to expand...

That is not surprising either, since Sansui made warm sounding components.

I don't have the 1010 but I use a fully restored 737 that lives up to its solid reputation. From what I have read, the sound should remain very similar within the same series. (eg, Don't compare the 1010 to the 780)

Are you comparing the 1010/737 in the same environment: same room, speakers, source, volume, etc? Also, is your 737 re-capped/restored?

737 has had nothing done to it. The 1010 is fully redone. Comparing the two, the 737 doesn't hit as hard, but seems to be warmer with significantly more mid-bass.

Here's something I found this morning during listening to different sources: The phono input is what lacks warmth and bass. The aux and FM have a nice, strong warmth to them. When I switch to phono and play different records on either the 1 or 2 phono inputs, I have very little bass. I have to put the loudness and low cut on just to get any mid-bass response. That, and the highs are terribly forward and shrill.

With all total restorations it depends on the quality go the caps used, let us know what exactly was done to this 1010. Usually this model is one of the best sounding "tube like" receivers. You also need to give it time and let the caps stretch their legs a little.

What was done:

Main filter caps (Old ones were leaking).
Power board caps (4 tested completely bad).
Cleaned speaker relay and ALL switches and buttons.
Set DC offset and amp bias.

Like I said earlier, what confuses me is the fact that sound played through AUX and the FM tuner are awesome and warm. It is only the PHONO that lacks bass and has shrill highs.

You are using the same turntable and cartridge with the SX-737?

Rob

I would go ahead and change out the caps on the equalizer(phono) board.

Equalizer Amp Board (AWF-011) (Check board number, the “B” version of this board has two 100uF 6.3v caps in addition to the ones listed below)

AWF-011: C1: 1uF 25v CSSA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWF-011: C2: 1uF 25v CSSA: 647-UKL1H010KDDANA 1uF 50v
AWF-011: C7: 330uF 6.8v CEA: 647-UPW1A331MPD 330uF 10v
AWF-011: C8: 330uF 6.8v CEA: 647-UPW1A331MPD 330uF 10v
AWF-011: C11: 3.3uF 25v CEANL: 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA 3.3uF 50v
AWF-011: C12: 3.3uF 25v CEANL: 647-UKL1H3R3KDDANA 3.3uF 50v
AWF-011: C17 100uF 35v CEA: 647-UPW1V101MPD 100uF 35v
AWF-011: C18 220uF 25v CEA: 647-UPW1V221MPD6 220uF 35v

Yes, same turntable and cartridge. I'm getting a work out moving all this stuff around!

It seems the longer I am playing it, the better it's getting. It's starting to get the warmth of the 737 to it. I think what's throwing me off is its greater frequency response and its clarity. It is certainly more clear than the 737 and has more highs, which may make a perceived bass deficiency. Also, since its got a bunch of new caps, I wonder if they need "broken in" a little bit??? If I continue to have issues, doing caps on the phono board may be the next stop!

I know of the shrill highs and missing bass. The caps "tsd71" suggests are the same I use on the 1010's and the phono is wonderful. I would let it run (days) for several hours before making any changes as tsd71 also suggests and see (hear) the difference it will make.

my 737 838 and 1010 sound about the same as each other. the phono section in each sound a little light in the bass but i don't think its the fault of the receiver. the phono section in the 737 though is the best of the bunch, maybe the others need some attention. its not something i'm too worried about.

+1. The 1010 is a bit lacking in the phono dept until the phono EQ board, and the preamp boards are done. Comparing it to my 737, and 939, the only real plus it has is the fact that it's capable of more power. Other than that, it's a wash between the 3. All of mine are completely redone. All boards.

Yep. Turned it on again this evening and once again a major lack of bass. I also realized the right channel is a hair quieter and more fuzzy than the left- and that is ONLY on the phono setting. The DC offset and the boards are set correctly. I have 100% isolated the problems to the phono circuit. What sucks is I don't have the money for more service on this unit. I've already spent too much.

you could go with a stand alone phono preamp. maybe even a tube one for not all that much doe. just an option though.

If you do it yourself....................

I just ran a BOM for the AWM-013 phono board on Mouser. All the caps and the transistors are.....$6.55 plus $4.99 shipping= $11.54

awf-013 c1 2.2 25 cssa 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
awf-013 c2 2.2 25 cssa 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
awf-013 c5 470 6 ceanl 470 6 647-UKL0J471MPD
awf-013 c6 470 6 ceanl 470 6 647-UKL0J471MPD
awf-013 c9 100 6 ceanl 100 25 647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
awf-013 c10 100 6 ceanl 100 25 647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
awf-013 c11 10 10 ceanl 10 50 647-UKL1H100MDD1TA
awf-013 c12 10 10 ceanl 10 50 647-UKL1H100MDD1TA
awf-013 c19 100 25 ceanl 100 25 647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
awf-013 c20 100 25 ceanl 100 25 647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
awf-013 c21 220 16 ceanl 220 16 647-UKL1C221KPDANA

awf-013 q1 2sa725 512-KSA992FBU
awf-013 q2 2sa725 512-KSA992FBU
awf-013 q3 2sa725 512-KSA992FBU
awf-013 q4 2sa725 512-KSA992FBU
awf-013 q5 2sc1313 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-013 q6 2sc1313 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-013 q7 2sc1313 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-013 q8 2sc1313 512-KSC1845FTA


bom text entry block (with an account in ez buy):

647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2KDDANA
647-UKL0J471MPD
647-UKL0J471MPD
647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
647-UKL1H100MDD1TA
647-UKL1H100MDD1TA
647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
647-UKL1E101KPDANATA
647-UKL1C221KPDANA

512-KSA992FBU
512-KSA992FBU
512-KSA992FBU
512-KSA992FBU
512-KSC1845FTA
512-KSC1845FTA
512-KSC1845FTA
512-KSC1845FTA

Some good ideas here.

One thing I can't get over though is that even though the rest of the unit sounds better than the phono stage, it's still not as warm and smooth sounding as my beat up 737 and 780s. I would think it would sound like the 737 with more juice and certainly warmer than the 780, but that is not the case. Ah, the story of vintage audio!