Wharfedale Owners Thread

The surrounds of the non-foam surround Wharfedale drivers were not sealed. The design was not acoustic suspension so an acoustic seal is not a material criteria as say with the KLH or AR. The Wx0 without suffix was infinite baffle designed and relied on internal volume. Close to open baffle but, not quite as it does not rely on the backwave for the sound like a port or acoustic suspension does.

portnoy said:

I always hear about the sonic advantages of open baffle speakers, and I really haven't gotten around to properly building a pair, so I took the easy way out.

And I must say they sound pretty darn good.

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I can't tell what you did here? Punched a hole in the grill cloth?

captouch said:

I can't tell what you did here? Punched a hole in the grill cloth?

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Actually I spliced about 3 or 4 feet of speaker wire between the posts / pots on the inside back of the rear panels, and set them the floor against the wall, hence open baffle speakers.



I put a florescent lantern behind the speaker so the light would shine through the W70 port to illustrate that the back was off.

Cheers,
Wayne

Finally found stands for the W60s.





Took a while.

portnoy said:

.....Recently I decided to try a very slight and easy modification to one of my pairs of W-70s.

I always hear about the sonic advantages of open baffle speakers, and I really haven't gotten around to properly building a pair, so I took the easy way out.

And I must say they sound pretty darn good.

Wayne,

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I've been considering what this mod might sound like. Very curious. How would you describe the difference in sound?

I've got W90s as my mains, and have cobbled together my first (all british) OBs with Super 3 tweets. Thread here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=588445

Shadco those w60 stands look super cool and period correct - nice find!

:tresbon:

I am heading out Saturday to get PIO caps for my W70D's and W60D MKII. Does anyone have a list of caps that I'll need? I am having trouble finding the information and am running short on time. Thanks in advance.

_GWH_ said:

I am heading out Saturday to get PIO caps for my W70D's and W60D MKII. Does anyone have a list of caps that I'll need? I am having trouble finding the information and am running short on time. Thanks in advance.

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Try Googling "W70D recap threads" or "W60D recap threads" and see what comes up on the forum sites. It had taken some looking, but I know I had found the info for the W60D caps somewhere, and I'm sure the info for the other speaker is out there. If I had time, I would look, but it's dinner time.

Listening to my oil-capped W90's right now. Can't say enough about what the oil caps did for those, especially in terms of low-volume listening. Much-more-open at those background levels than they were with Dayton polyropylene caps, plus the Daytons added a nasty glare to the sound compared to the incredibly-relaxed sound of the PCB-era oil caps (The old PCB-filled caps apparently sound best for whatever reason). It's amazing how low I can take these before the soundstage falls apart. The oil caps I used were 1000VDC Sprague "Clorinol" caps (for the mid-woofers) and mid '50's era, 600VDC Sangamo caps (for the tweeters). The higher-voltage oil caps were made better than the lower-voltage ones, and this makes for better depth and complexity. Whatever the case, my W90's are a brimmin' bowl of awesomeness now. Open-sounding, bloomy as hell, and incredibly-natural ("Viva Las Vegas" Elvis has left the building. It's all Sun Sessions now).

If you're looking at vintage n.o.s. oil caps, you may also want to check out the vintage, Russian-made "KBG" caps. These were made exclusively for the KGB back in the late '50's. You can find KBG's of varying quality on Fleabay. Just keep track of the voltage ratings and the tolerance % (The lower the %, the better the cap). Crestwood23 used KBG's in his W90's, and he was blown away by the sound. Good-quality vintage oil caps are no joke. I have a pair of W60D's that I still need to recap. The warm, musical sound of the old Wharfedales won me over pretty-quickly, plus I love how they aren't room-dependent in the least. Small room or large, and everything in netween, so long as you get the placement distances right. And the W60D and W70D can both be placed close to the back wall if need be. Also, the W60D and it's W60 brethren can all be placed horizontally as well as vertically (Just make sure the tweeters are at eye-level and don't try to mirror-image them). I prefer them horizontally, but they need to be a lot higher off the floor with horizontal placement in order to get the tweeters at eye-level... Remember, tweeter-height is key with these old Wharfedales).

With the right amplification behind them, the old sand-filled Wharfedales are first-class all the way. LOTS of potential in those drivers, plus the sand-filled rear panel allows you to place them close to the back wall (No bass-boom off the back wall). My W90's have gone from great to downright frigging amazing over the two years I've had them. Just a matter of refining them in terms of application/amp-to-speaker synergy, etc. But room-size has not been a factor since the oil recap.

One thing though. Height is everything with these if you want quality high-frequency dispersion. This goes for the purple dome-tweeters as well. The original W90 was meant to be paired with an optional wooden stand, and the Hi-Fi Stereo Review article emphasizes the sonic improvements (as well as the need for them), which were a direct result of the added height allowing those high frequencies to reach the listener's ears unobstructed. They called it "almost magical in it's acoustical effect", and that was just with an additional 4.25". Raising them 10" puts the tweeters right at eye/ear-level, plus that extra height is necessary in smaller rooms if you want to hear what those tweeters (purple domes in your case) can do. But proper placement is defintely a top priority if you want to really hear them sing.

Sorry about all the editing... Listening to Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On" and "Let's Get It On" albums at the moment (MoFi SACD's). The Wharfies love this stuff.

portnoy said:

Actually I spliced about 3 or 4 feet of speaker wire between the posts / pots on the inside back of the rear panels, and set them the floor against the wall, hence open baffle speakers.

I put a florescent lantern behind the speaker so the light would shine through the W70 port to illustrate that the back was off.

Cheers,
Wayne

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Nice... Those are the original all-alnico W70's, and knowing how my alnico W60's and W90's are, your W70's must be a VERY-nice-sounding pair of speakers. Don't underestimate the added benefits of that sand-filled rear panel. It eliminates backwaves and cab-resonances. Those alnico woofers and large mid-woofers sound beautiful running open/full-range. In fact, I think of them as single-cone full-rangers, and I think those early W70's have the woofer and mid both running that way. That's the full-on British Wharfedale sound... Gilbert Briggs' Wharfedale. He liked to keep crossovers as simple as possible, often using a simple first-order design with a single cap on the tweeter and the woofer running full-range, and this made it's way to the US-marketed W*0 models (the earliest ones, that is). That's how the woofers are in my W60's AND my W90's, and that alnico W12 puts out a sweet sound running that way. Not to understate those tweeters. The alnico Super 3's are like hand-spun silk, straight from the catepillar. Supposed to be very-much-like a ribbon tweeter.

And I too love Shadco's stands... Those early W60's are magic like that, but it takes A LOT of height to accommodate it. I had to use dining room armchairs, but it looks like you got the right height with those stands (Those are metal/alloy, I assume?). The W60 was originally designed as a large bookshelf speaker that can moonlight as a floorstander. I tried them many different ways, and horizontal placement about 30" high, non-mirror-imaged and pointed directly at me seems to give me the best results. Here's a recent video of my early W60's powered by my post-restored Fisher 800C (Most of that bloom comes from those alnico W12's). http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=qxPljs82Xgw

PastTechFan said:

I've been considering what this mod might sound like. Very curious. How would you describe the difference in sound?

I've got W90s as my mains, and have cobbled together my first (all british) OBs with Super 3 tweets. Thread here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=588445

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I've been following your all british OB thread and find it intriguing, my original plan here before taking the backs off mine were to try to reproduce a pair of SBF/3s from one of my pair of W-70s.

As for my impressions of my W-70"s in the quasi "open baffle" configuration:

The imaging is improved - vocals and instruments are clearly more defined in 3 dimensional space from proper stereo recordings

Also, I believe the bass is actually improved too.

I'm pushing them with an Yamaha RX-V2700, Listening to



This in Pure Direct Mode, on Dual 1019 with a stanton cartridge (forget the model number).

Speakers are over 2 feet from the wall and 3 feet from the corners toed in about 15 degrees towards the listening position.

I have them upside down with the tweeters at ear level.

Cheers,
Wayne

Well, I have joined the club, but I am not happy, since my mids are all messed up. Gota pair of Dovedale IIIa's with busted mids. Question...can I use mids from, say a W70 in the Dovedales. Really think I am going to have issues finding replacements and if I can open up the search to other options, I just may get lucky. On another note, does anyone know if the Bass Drivers Surrounds should be stiff. Mine are hard and not flexible.

Champ said:

Well, I have joined the club, but I am not happy, since my mids are all messed up. Gota pair of Dovedale IIIa's with busted mids. Question...can I use mids from, say a W70 in the Dovedales. Really think I am going to have issues finding replacements and if I can open up the search to other options, I just may get lucky. On another note, does anyone know if the Bass Drivers Surrounds should be stiff. Mine are hard and not flexible.

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What are the surrounds made of in those? If rubber, I think there might be something to coat them with that softens them up some.

If you were gonna' substitute mids, I think the W60D or even W60E mid would probably be a better choice. The one in the W60E is actually a B.I.C.-made midwoofer. Hard to miss once you've seen it, and those sell fairly-cheap.

Gang-Twanger said:

What are the surrounds made of in those? If rubber, I think there might be something to coat them with that softens them up some.

If you were gonna' substitute mids, I think the W60D or even W60E mid would probably be a better choice. The one in the W60E is actually a B.I.C.-made midwoofer. Hard to miss once you've seen it, and those sell fairly-cheap.

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Thanks for the advice Gang-Twanger
The surrounds are hard and brittle. I am looking for authentic substitutes. May have some by Friday. Fingers crossed.
The mids are 5 inches and looks like the W60 is 6 inches. Not sure they will fit.

Champ said:

Thanks for the advice Gang-Twanger
The surrounds are hard and brittle. I am looking for authentic substitutes. May have some by Friday. Fingers crossed.
The mids are 5 inches and looks like the W60 is 6 inches. Not sure they will fit.

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But the woofer surrounds are a rubber material, right? I'm pretty-sure the Dovedale III had rubber ones, and I heard that rubber surrounds can be softened up with some sort of liquid stuff that you put on them, but I believe it depends on how dried-out and brittle they may be. I've never done surrounds before, but I know rubber surrounds can be replaced. The old Wharfedale drivers loosen up and sound better and better after they've been played a few months, but again, it depends on how far gone the surrounds may be. Hopefully others will chime in on this. I know the old Wharfedale line quite-well, but I'm no repairman, so I don't want to steer you wrong.

OK, so you think you might have WOOFER SURROUNDS by Friday? Or did you mean replacement midwoofers? Just makin' sure.

I figured the Dovedale III used the same-sized midwoofer as the W60E and W70E/Rosedale. Looked like a 5" one to me, but I never, measured.

I need to get my W60D's up and going... They just need a recap and the midwoofer isolator glued back on inside one of them... The tweeters are an earlier version of the ones in yours (I think the ones in my W60E's might be exactly the same, or at least LOOK the same, which would make sense, since the original W2, the inspiration for future Dovedale models, used the same kind of tweeter as the first-generation W60).

Gang-Twanger said:

But the woofer surrounds are a rubber material, right? I'm pretty-sure the Dovedale III had rubber ones, and I heard that rubber surrounds can be softened up with some sort of liquid stuff that you put on them, but I believe it depends on how dried-out and brittle they may be. I've never done surrounds before, but I know rubber surrounds can be replaced. The old Wharfedale drivers loosen up and sound better and better after they've been played a few months, but again, it depends on how far gone the surrounds may be. Hopefully others will chime in on this. I know the old Wharfedale line quite-well, but I'm no repairman, so I don't want to steer you wrong.

OK, so you think you might have WOOFER SURROUNDS by Friday? Or did you mean replacement midwoofers? Just makin' sure.

I figured the Dovedale III used the same-sized midwoofer as the W60E and W70E/Rosedale. Looked like a 5" one to me, but I never, measured.

I need to get my W60D's up and going... They just need a recap and the midwoofer isolator glued back on inside one of them... The tweeters are an earlier version of the ones in yours (I think the ones in my W60E's might be exactly the same, or at least LOOK the same, which would make sense, since the original W2, the inspiration for future Dovedale models, used the same kind of tweeter as the first-generation W60).

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The surrounds are far to brittle to be of any use. Going to try to replace both woofers. I think these speakers were in storage for years without any temperature control.

I'll dig further into using W60E/W70E further. My mids, like the bass and tweeter drivers use square magnets. The tweeter is the purple domed one.

Get those W60Ds up and running will ya

when i bought my W60Es the rubber surrounds for the woofers were dry and had small cracks. took them to a good audio tech and he tried brake fluid or something like that. did not work.

luckily local AKer wolverine had some correct woofers with good surrounds so i was back in business.

I have a modus 8 that the cone came apart from the spider on 1 of the 4. And it had a surround crack though that isn't a big issue.
I am probably going to part it out.

Thanks.
srinath.

Won a set of bass Dovedale 3 drivers on the fleabay. They look good and the seller tells me that the surrounds are not hard. Now I am where I was when I first for these speakers, shy of a pair of midranges:sigh:

Champ said:

Won a set of bass Dovedale 3 drivers on the fleabay. They look good and the seller tells me that the surrounds are not hard. Now I am where I was when I first for these speakers, shy of a pair of midranges:sigh:

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Not really, you are getting there. Only need the mids now and ready for the rebuild. Congrats.

Champ said:

The surrounds are far to brittle to be of any use. Going to try to replace both woofers. I think these speakers were in storage for years without any temperature control.

I'll dig further into using W60E/W70E further. My mids, like the bass and tweeter drivers use square magnets. The tweeter is the purple domed one.

Get those W60Ds up and running will ya

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Yeah, you might be best off just waiting for a correct pair to show up. Thinking back now, I remember one of the midline Wharfe models having an alnico mid (or at least I recall someone else's comment on that), but I figured it was ceramic (I know they had square ceramic AND square alnico ones over the years, even in the late '60's).

Besides, the mid in the W60E was designed for a speaker with bigger displacement than the Dovedale.