Can a home theater receiver do quadraphonic audio?

hnash53

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Are modern home theater receivers able to put out quadraphonic audio in the way that a vintage quadraphonic receiver does?

Perhaps more specifically in my case, does a modern home theater receiver have the capability of "synthesizing quad" through a "regular matrix" setting or "SQ Logic" setting... or something similar to that?

I realize that modern home theater receivers won't have a "regular matrix" or "SQ Logic" setting, but do they have something akin to that?

The reason I am asking is that I had a modern home theater receiver... a Yamaha RX-V477. I was told by the tech support personnel that since I have 4 vintage speakers (EPI 150s), that I should put it on the "5 channel stereo" setting. Well, I did, and was not impressed.

But when I got a vintage quad receiver, and put it on the "regular matrix" setting.... WOW !! ! What a sound!! And I was just listening to Pandora One internet radio streaming at about 192kbps.

So, with that info, what do you think? It seems to me that with the digital technology of today, a modern home theater receiver SHOULD be able to produce at least a "synthesized quad" sound.

Let me know your thoughts... much appreciated. Thanks!!
 
Nope - I have an Integra DTC 9.8 processor - does 7.1 audio, Plays 7 ch Bluray and all the fancy stuff, even 4 ch stereo (STEREO) -
but it does not synthesize Quad from 2 channel sources. Had a top of the line Yamaha receiver, it could do 4 ch stereo (yuck)
but also did not synthesize QUAD from 2 ch sources.

I DID have a Surround master for demo last year. Now it did create exciting 4 channel sound from 2 ch sources -
(through 4 speakers), and sounded like the better Quad discs I had in the day (Volunteers & Blow by Blow) ...
I wrote a review up on AK here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=6637903#post6637903



Are modern home theater receivers able to put out quadraphonic audio in the way that a vintage quadraphonic receiver does?

Perhaps more specifically in my case, does a modern home theater receiver have the capability of "synthesizing quad" through a "regular matrix" setting or "SQ Logic" setting... or something similar to that?

I realize that modern home theater receivers won't have a "regular matrix" or "SQ Logic" setting, but do they have something akin to that?

The reason I am asking is that I had a modern home theater receiver... a Yamaha RX-V477. I was told by the tech support personnel that since I have 4 vintage speakers (EPI 150s), that I should put it on the "5 channel stereo" setting. Well, I did, and was not impressed.

But when I got a vintage quad receiver, and put it on the "regular matrix" setting.... WOW !! ! What a sound!! And I was just listening to Pandora One internet radio streaming at about 192kbps.

So, with that info, what do you think? It seems to me that with the digital technology of today, a modern home theater receiver SHOULD be able to produce at least a "synthesized quad" sound.

Let me know your thoughts... much appreciated. Thanks!!
 
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The truly discrete quad units play very well with today's surround formats. Give it a try with movie listening, I think you will have tons of fun.
 
A lot of misinformation here.

First, quad LPs - or any other format of '70s quad - are NOT 5.1 or 7.1; it's 4.0.

Second, 5 channel stereo is most emphatically NOT surround; it's left channel out of LF & LR, right channel out of RF & RR, and a mono signal in the center. Virtually useless.

As far as decoding SQ formatted LPs - well, not so much. It really takes an SQ decoder to decode SQ.

QS (or "regular matrix"), on the other hand, will give very nice results with a variety of settings. The aforementioned Brain Salad Surgery give spectacular results through my Integra DTR 6.6 using the Orchestra setting. Most any rock album - or anything recorded with multiple microphones - will synthesize very well, at least on most Integras and Onkyos. Harman Kardon receivers also have a program called Logic 7 which synthesizes 2 channel sources very well. (@Heather: doesn't your DTC have those programs too?)

Many surround receivers do have direct inputs for a source such as 4 channel reel to reel, 4 channel 8 track, or the output of a CD-4 demodulator. In this case, no processing is done, it'll just feed the 4 channels to Front left and right and Rear left and right.

As always, just my opinion, YMMV...but I had Sansui quad back in the day, and I'm very familiar with the various formats; it can still be approximated today.

Happy trails,
Larry B.
 
Dolby Pro Logic II and newer do a pretty good job in creating multichannel out of 2 channel input. Other matrix modes like Logic 7, Anthem Logic, et al. are often somewhat similar albeit more subtle in effect. That said, DPLII and newer have adjustments to width, center channel content, etc. that aren't always well known to users. Additionally, 5.1, 7.1 etc. receivers or processors can be set for 4.0 channel arrangements.

However, how that all compares to "quad" recordings isn't something I'm familiar with.
 
Ok... thanks for the comments so far.

A little bit more information...

I don't plan on buying any quad recorded material. Though I am a 70s guy, I don't wish to hear the oldies... no matter how good they might sound in true discrete quad or through a modern home theater receiver.

And I don't plan on buying any quad sources like RTR, 8 track, or quad LPs (CD-4).

I listen mostly to streamed internet radio, and I listen to mostly contemporary material. The little Sanyo quad receiver I have now does pretty well with synthesizing quad from the internet radio stream.

I just now finished watching "Edge of Tomorrow" through the Sanyo quad and it did a decent job just synthesizing the sound. And I've been fairly impressed with other movies watched with the audio going thru the little Sanyo quad.

I have a Sansui QRX-6500 on the way from another AKer. It's got the vario-matrix ... so I am expecting to literally hear great things from it.

What prompted me to ask this question is a comment from a different thread that I should just get a home theater receiver. But what I'm hearing in this thread is that, for my listening, a home theater receiver might not suit me.

Plus, I don't intend on parting ways with my EPI speakers any time soon.

I'm sure that Brain Salad Surgery, et. al. are tremendous sounding on truly discrete 4 channel/quad receivers... better than they ever sounded thru 2 channel receivers. But these 61 year young ears are eager for music they've never heard... and internet radio does that for me. I'm just looking/hearing for the best sound I can get from that source.

As always, many thanks for the comments so far. More are always welcome.
 
whoaru99.... your post came in as I was responding to prior comments.

Can you inform me as to which specific HT receivers/manufacturers can be set for 4 channel arrangements? Denon, Yamaha, Sony... etc.?

Thanks
 
Most any rock album - or anything recorded with multiple microphones - will synthesize very well, at least on most Integras and Onkyos. Harman Kardon receivers also have a program called Logic 7 which synthesizes 2 channel sources very well.
(@Heather: doesn't your DTC have those programs too?)

As always, just my opinion, YMMV...but I had Sansui quad back in the day, and I'm very familiar with the various formats; it can still be approximated today.

Happy trails,
Larry B.

I had an HK AVR7300 (then top of the Line AVR) - it had Logic 7 but most of the time when I tried it it seemed to smear the sound field - I usually let the Oppo DVD (and later BluRay) decode the discs and play directly through the HK.
When it died, twice, I got the Integra. I tried it but have not been that intrigued by the synthesized surround it produced.

I generally play stereo sources in stereo for the better imaging that results.
Mostly music released in stereo sounds best on our 2 ch system upstairs.

I do however own some of the Quad material that has been loaded to SACD or DVD-A and do enjoy those sources when I am in the mood for a surround experience.

I've got a copy of Beck's Sea Changes coming in Bluray Audio and am interested in how it sounds compared to the SACD version that came out a few years back. I also ordered the new Pink Floyd "Endless River" in the Bluray/CD combo package - looking forward to that.
 
whoaru99.... your post came in as I was responding to prior comments.

Can you inform me as to which specific HT receivers/manufacturers can be set for 4 channel arrangements? Denon, Yamaha, Sony... etc.?

Thanks

Far as I know pretty much any/all of them. You pick the speaker and sub/no sub arrangement during the initial configuration. The typical config for 4.0 would be front left/right, surround left/right, no sub, no center, no back speakers.

Also, for matrixing 2 ch into more channels, go with something new enough to at least have Dolby Pro Logic II, not the earlier Dolby Pro Logic without the II. This means a receiver/processor from about year 2000/2001 and on. Don't recall if this was introduced on higher models first and later trickled down or if it more or less just hit the market across the board. In any event, look for Dolby Pro Logic II (DPLII) or the newer variants DPLIIx, DPLIIz. The latter have the same base type of processing but with capability for matrixing out more than 5.1 channel setup.
 
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The short answer yes and no. It is possible to decode CBS SQ and Sansui QS, both matrix encoded discs, but not JVC CD-4. However, the results are not correctly decoded, and not how the producers intended these records to be heard.

I have a technics home theater receiver with six line level inputs and a Sanyo quad receiver with four tape outputs. I run my turntable through the Sanyo into the Technics and play through four speakers and get some effect however the various surround modes provide more separation from the Dolby than the QS or RM on the Sanyo fun to play with.
 
Do a quick google search " the best matrix surround mode for music avs forum "

They cover this subject extensively on there and there is a quite a range of opinions on what is the best surround processor to get the best results for listening to two-channel music out of "all your speakers".

Most AVR's and Pre-Processors have a wide range of options.

Cheers,
Wayne
 
OK... I've done a bit of research on the Dolby ProLogic II and just want to make sure I understand what I've been reading.

ProLogic II can take 2-channel audio and through matrix processing, "synthesize" it into 5.1 surround. Is that correct? (The "synthesize" is my own terminology from quadraphonic literature.)

If I have just my four EPI 150s, will Dolby ProLogic II give me a "quad" or 4-channel sound? (I know I'll have to tell my HT receiver that there is no center speaker and no subwoofer.) Will I "lose" any of the audio, or will ProLogic II just divide it between the 4 speakers?

Thanks again for the comments.
 
OK... I've done a bit of research on the Dolby ProLogic II and just want to make sure I understand what I've been reading.

ProLogic II can take 2-channel audio and through matrix processing, "synthesize" it into 5.1 surround. Is that correct? (The "synthesize" is my own terminology from quadraphonic literature.)

If I have just my four EPI 150s, will Dolby ProLogic II give me a "quad" or 4-channel sound? (I know I'll have to tell my HT receiver that there is no center speaker and no subwoofer.) Will I "lose" any of the audio, or will ProLogic II just divide it between the 4 speakers?

Thanks again for the comments.

Yes, essentially. Unlike its lame predecessor, ProLogic II does a creditable job of synthesizing a surround field from two channel recordings. In fact, PLII is the closest modern-day approximation to original Sansui QS, with the addition of modern digital processing. You won't lose a thing, all of the original signal will be heard. However, since the 2 channel source hasn't been encoded, what you'll hear will be different from recording to recording...the results will be unpredictable.

All matrix surround systems rely on phase differences to extract the additional channels. These differences are caused by multiple microphones in multiple places. You'll find, for instance, that a Mercury Living Stereo recording - made with only three microphones - won't decode very well. But most any pop/rock recording will give excellent results. But not, as said, what the producer intended.

Happy trails,
Larry B.
 
OK... I am often able to tell a difference from one recording to another when I am listening to ... say Pandora One. Some songs definitely sound "better" (more separation or discrete sounds emanating from one speaker to another) than others... though none seem to sound poorly.

The only time listening to quad that has sounded poorly was when I put on some CDs and sent the sound thru the "matrix" setting. I tried the SQ Logic setting and it wasn't any better. Perhaps this Sansui QRX receiver may do a better job than the little Sanyo.

Or.. maybe I'll try a modern home theater receiver again with Dolby ProLogic II.

Thanks again so much... I almost always learn something new when posting to AK.
 
There are often folks willing to talk directly and share listening sessions -
we all learn something at listening parties - but if you don't have a "location" listed in your user CP settings its hard to know where you are and if we should offer ...

Just a general location is all we need -
 
So, Kent... what constitutes a "proper Quad receiver"?

Don't know if you read about my listening "habits," but it's nearly all internet radio. I'm just looking/listening for the best synthesized sound I can get.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a Sansui QRX-6500 on the way to my house. Does that qualify?
 
So, Kent... what constitutes a "proper Quad receiver"?

Don't know if you read about my listening "habits," but it's nearly all internet radio. I'm just looking/listening for the best synthesized sound I can get.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a Sansui QRX-6500 on the way to my house. Does that qualify?

Seems to fit the bill.
I've just received the QRX 6001 and it's functions are, QS, SQ and CD4

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Detailing the Range of Sansui Four Channel Receivers.

Many people would say that 4-channel stereo works so well because it has twice the number of speakers to deliver the sounds. The trouble with this logical answer is that it's only partially correct. The fact is that 4-channel sound is not just twice as good as conventional 2-channel stereo. It's infinitely better.

Conventional 2-channel stereo works on the principle that sound coming from the left and right speakers will interact to create the effect of presence missing from monophonic sound reproduction.

The left/right placement can also create the illusion of movement and direction in sound. The one serious drawback to this, however, is that 2-channel illusions are strictly 2-dimensional. They take place only along one flat wall or surface. And all of the sounds are direct, as well, with no ambience or reflected sound depth.

At a live musical concert, or in the midst of a crowd, our ears perceive a multitude of sounds from all directions at once. This is what is called a natural sound field. It has no flat walls since each listener is in the center of his own 360 degree circle of sound, made up of direct and ambient sounds.

This natural sound field can be recreated only by a multi-channel audio system. And that's what 4-channel is and does. It's as simple as a circle of sound and just as perfect.

It's a whole new approach to full realism in reproduced sound and Sansui's new QRX series of 4-channel receivers makes it work to full advantage for you.
 
All proper Quadraphonic receivers should have 4 channels of full range power amplification, the capability of playing and recording discrete tape formats from a 4 channel tape recorder, the ability to play one major matrix disc record format (QS my favorite here) the ability to decode CD-4 discrete disc records, have full controls for all Quadraphonic functions, good quality simulated matrix Quad, 2 channel mode when desired, have at least 35 watts/channel times 4 channels, and be reliable and fun to use doing so. The last run Sansui QRX 7500 and all QRX 7500a and higher models do that and more. And Sansui Vario-Matrix the best ever matrix decoding until the Fosgate/Tate decoders very late on.
 
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