Bypassing Fuses On Speakers For Better Sound!?

Oozure said:

Is this just your opinion or does it apply, absolutely, to all speakers with protection fuses?

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Are you familiar with the meaning of the word "can"? If you understand the concept of interaction with the rest of the system, i.e. speaker and amplifier - there are many variables at play.

It is based on my opinion, speaker manufacturers and other listeners. You'll find several on this thread alone. Do your Dynaco A-25s have fuses? My Advents did not. My ADS/Braun speakers did not. My early Magnepans did not. My Polk speakers used in the HT do not. My Sound Lab electrostats do not (at least on the signal - only AC).

E-Stat said:

Are you familiar with the meaning of the word "can"? If you understand the concept of interaction with the rest of the system, i.e. speaker and amplifier - there are many variables at play.

It is based on my opinion, speaker manufacturers and other listeners. You'll find several on this thread alone. Do your Dynaco A-25s have fuses? My Advents did not. My ADS/Braun speakers did not. My early Magnepans did not. My Polk speakers used in the HT do not.

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"May" is probably a less confusing alternative to "can". Sorry for my confusion.
Advent did sell/recommend a fuse, after fried egg tweeters started failing. My Polk Monitor 5s have fuses.

Oozure said:

"May" is probably a less confusing alternative to "can".

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May usually denotes the question of "permission". May I be excused now?

Oozure said:

Advent did sell/recommend a fuse, after fried egg tweeters started failing.

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For the originals, yes. A reviewer friend of mine who wrote the Double Advent review in 1973 used a Phase Linear 700 and fried several. Henry was thinking more about using 30 watt per channel receivers in the original design.

The New Advent, however, addressed that issue via ferro fluid cooling and such was rendered unnecessary. The crossover was also simplified using fewer parts. Better sound through problem solving and technology!

To me, it looks like those "abcdef" graphs, as the "noise", "distortion" or whatever entering the cable is of DIFFERENT frequency along the graphs (as stated in the article), are just to prove the merger from normal loudspeaker cable to RG59 in THIS very studio case got rid of the (induced somehow from the OUTSIDE) rubbish and it had an at least perceived positive effect on the sonics using sensitive speakers.

and yes, the shielded loudspeaker 'live" wire contained no rubbish, in contrast with the shield when used as "live"conductor.

This time, apparently nobody complained about the fact the fact even DC resistance is very high (erratically, I stated 40 damping factor, but seeing the graphs are about 50 meters RG59, not 6 meters as I first assumed), making the resistance having a much bigger impact.
At assumed 0.033 ohms per meter, you see DC resistance of inner conductor is 1.66 ohms. Not knowing about the outside conductor, assuming some 0.14 for the shield makes 1.8 ohms total: Can you image it has influence on the sound indeed, especially if "interference from the outside" is induced???

Myself, I consider a 20 mm fuse to have less impact.

If my interpretation of these graphs is wrong, I like to know, as I am not some university-educated guy, maybe somebody can explain how the setups would look like?

Also I would like to know what equipment is used to display a 0 to 120 dB SPL spectrum recorded by a mike or other air pressure measuring device capable of that, that must be some real nice equipment.

Don't Do It!!
Don't Do It!!!!

Fuses are your friends that will take a bullet for you.

sorry but they don't...

if they did no one would have blown anything but the fuse....

like of said now 50 times....they are useless...

gslikker said:

Also I would like to know what equipment is used to display a 0 to 120 dB SPL spectrum recorded by a mike or other air pressure measuring device capable of that, that must be some real nice equipment.

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Since Gene Czerwinski, founder of Cerwin-Vega, died five years ago, you may never be able to answer that question.

Perhaps you might contact the speaker manufacturer to see what gear they use.

Personally, I would leave the fuses in during any warranty period - just in case.

On any speakers that are out of warranty, try it both ways.

Can you hear a difference?

If no, leave the fuses in place.

If you can hear a difference, is the difference worth any risk you perceive?

If it is, bypass the fuses.

If not, leave them in.

As with all things, YMMV.....

Bkphoto said:

sorry but they don't...

if they did no one would have blown anything but the fuse....

like of said now 50 times....they are useless...

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Reminds me of this quote related to Murphy's law...

"The rule of Protection:
If you install a 50¢ fuse to protect a 100$ component, the 100$ component will blow to protect the 50¢ fuse."

Ok, surely we can agree that 'if' there is an effect on a speaker's performance by removing or bypassing a fuse, we can easily quantify that effect by studying any voltage drop across the fuse whilst in operation? After all, the signal is alternating current of varying amplitudes flowing through a conductor (the fuse). If the conductor, connections, terminals and fuse related wire are not perfect, there will be a voltage drop. One could use music or test tones, sweeps or uncorrelated noise.

The key is deciding when that voltage drop is completely irrelevant. Some people guild the lily in one area of less importance and conveniently miss areas of greater importance. Some people like to seek out every minutiae and tweak it or alter it in accordance with their own, study, beliefs or information they have read.

So basically you are stating that any audible change should be measurable.

That's the crux of the biscuit right there isn't it? There are those who believe it to be so, and those who don't. Ne'er the twain shall meet, so it appears.

As JohnVF pointed out long ago, what we are really arguing about is a fundamentally different way in which people perceive the world. Those on one side of the gulf are truly baffled how those on the other side can't see it they way they do, and vice-versa.

And so, these threads will continue, in perpetuity.

The human brain and hearing system, and probably the entire rest of the audio chain, are specifically designed so that these sorts of questions can't be answered, and the arguments are destined to go on forever. The one thing I know for certain, and I'm unanimous about it, is that you should or shouldn't use fuses. And that's all I'm going to say about the matter.

ConradH said:

The human brain and hearing system, and probably the entire rest of the audio chain, are specifically designed so that these sorts of questions can't be answered, and the arguments are destined to go on forever. The one thing I know for certain, and I'm unanimous about it, is that you should or shouldn't use fuses. And that's all I'm going to say about the matter.

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I think you are right.

Heaven help them if they start bypassing fuses inside their gear or maybe at the switch panel/fuse box.

Having repaired so much gear, with everything from (fool-ha!-typo) foil wrapped fuses, 25A car fuses, nails and copper wire wrapped around fuse holders, I can't complain, it used to keep our techs amused and in work.

I didn't have any fast fuses around so I replaced two with slow ones. PRaT certainly suffered, as did soundstage depth and width. The high end just sounded... slow. It couldn't keep up with the mids making thing sound strange. At first I thought I had an improvement because there was a slightly fuller sound in the top end. But it was just the echo created by the slower tweeter.

restorer-john said:

Some people like to seek out every minutiae and tweak it or alter it in accordance with their own, study, beliefs or information they have read.

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Or, as Jesus said, they "strain at a gnat and swallow a camel".

I have seen photos of listening spaces of some who claim the ability to hear things like fuses being in line. They go to extraordinary lengths to use tweaks with very debatable results when just moving their speakers, adding some room treatments or even just tidying up would make significant, measurable improvements.

My favorite is one of the "golden ears" at AK who has spent wads of money tweaking his system and dismisses anyone who can't hear differences in questionable tweaks. This "golden ear" golden boy who can hear knats farting ran his system an entire week with his speakers out of phase before discovering the problem not by sound, but by sight.

I used to own a pair of CV D9's that came with fuse holder built in to protect entire speaker system. I tried with and without fuses in there (solid brass bar), and was unable to detect a difference, and I was using 5 amp fast blows that I would occasionally blow. Maybe not the highest of hifi but they sounded nice and begged you to turn them up, they were most willing. I am certain they saved drivers, as they sounded very nice without strain up to fuse blowing. There is also a circuit breaker device on the tweets of these speaks, and those would trip with a lesser powered amp, but never with a high power amp, fuse always went first.

restorer-john said:

Ok, surely we can agree that 'if' there is an effect on a speaker's performance by removing or bypassing a fuse, we can easily quantify that effect by studying any voltage drop across the fuse whilst in operation? ...One could use music or test tones, sweeps or uncorrelated noise.

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You're still on the simplistic path wanting to generate another chart that generates information but provides little meaningful knowledge. So, at voltage drop x, what then does that tell you about the resulting sound quality? Would that be the same with every amplifier?

As for me, it would be by measuring the effect on the system - including the effect on the amplifier driving the speaker. Like CV did with the zip cord between amp and speaker - as is the fuse. Like Stereophile does with their simulated test load. Like analyzing what happens when some amplifiers drive challenging loads. If you're a fan of listening to "uncorrelated noise", however, then perhaps your "voltage drop" test might be relevant.

restorer-john said:

Some people like to seek out every minutiae and tweak it or alter it in accordance with their own, study, beliefs or information they have read.

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Or choice "B", like to hear their music in the most realistic fashion. Perhaps that isn't important to you.

Realistic? Well, er, no, I don't want realistic sound, I want what I think, remember or believe is realistic sound. My guess is that sound isn't even close to the original. Thus, after many decades of chasing inconsequential differences, I realized that I can, heck, have to be, happy with an imperfect presentation. At some point chasing that stuff is just OCD. Make no mistake, I'm a measurement snob, but in a blind test most of the things I can easily measure fade away like the grin of the Cheshire cat. All of them are the result of very basic electronic theory, no magic or previously unknown phenomena. I didn't find that link on cables to be particularly enlightening or relevant to most real world listening, as it looked at odd things like 50m lengths and EMI issues. The spectral results were far less significant than one might think, especially if you've spent much time making such measurements and looking at them. OTOH, I do agree about using properly simulated loads.

ConradH said:

Realistic? Well, er, no, I don't want realistic sound, I want what I think, remember or believe is realistic sound.

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To each his own. Since I listen to a variety of acoustic genres of music, I seek the original experience and have a passion for daily music listening. For smaller ensembles, I get a darn nice rendering.

ConradH said:

OTOH, I do agree about using properly simulated loads.

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That's the only thing that really matters.

Anybody ever clean the mechanical contact points of their fuses and fuse holders?

I'm surprised there hasn't been a mention of the oxidation that occurs at these points.