ProAc Studio 118

An update...I finally started using my Rogue Tempest II.

Oh. My. God.

This is not at all what my old Audio Space Galaxy 34 sounded like, which had an overall thin sound. The Tempest II is full, rich, liquid goodness.

Bass loses some slam and snap compared to my Bryston, sounding just a little flabbier. But the richness and texture it has is just astounding, as is how deep it seems to go. I marveled at how the 118 never sounded thin...well it's like it gained an extra order of thickness with the Rogue, with weighty bass the likes of which I've never heard my system produce.

Mids are similarly rich and full sounding. Each instrument just feels like it is more live and there. Guitar, piano, drums; like they have a bit more flesh on their bones. All the while sounding clear and open, with an uncanny sense of space.

I notice a bit less of a difference in the highs. They are probably just a little bit subdued but not in a bad way.

I'm not sure what I will do here...the Rogue is a beast. Bigger and heavier than I'd like. I am afraid to put it on my audio rack so it sits on the ground on a couple of wood platforms, but there isn't enough room there either. I am mulling over my long term plans, which I think involve getting a lighter and smaller KT88/6550 integrated - possibly from Opera Consonance. I don't know if the sound will compare however. The tubes would be almost identical, but I know that's not the only factor in a tube amp's sound.
 
Here is my current set up Pre2 Dac Qx with a psx, CDT and finally my Cyrus Stereo 200 arrived. I added a set of crystal cable piccolo's rca in between my pre and power amp and Piccollo power cord. Iam truely amazed with the new amp and 3X times the power from before. I love these speakers for proac's entry line I wonder how much better the response is now? These 118's are better suited than my D28's ever were for music. Im sure Ill raise some eyebrows on that statement but these are really good. The bottom and middle is so tight and the top is just sweet. I havent seen any reviews from the experts but Ill be curious when I do!
 
Fusion said:
An update...I finally started using my Rogue Tempest II.

Oh. My. God.

This is not at all what my old Audio Space Galaxy 34 sounded like, which had an overall thin sound. The Tempest II is full, rich, liquid goodness.

Bass loses some slam and snap compared to my Bryston, sounding just a little flabbier. But the richness and texture it has is just astounding, as is how deep it seems to go. I marveled at how the 118 never sounded thin...well it's like it gained an extra order of thickness with the Rogue, with weighty bass the likes of which I've never heard my system produce.

Mids are similarly rich and full sounding. Each instrument just feels like it is more live and there. Guitar, piano, drums; like they have a bit more flesh on their bones. All the while sounding clear and open, with an uncanny sense of space.

I notice a bit less of a difference in the highs. They are probably just a little bit subdued but not in a bad way.

I'm not sure what I will do here...the Rogue is a beast. Bigger and heavier than I'd like. I am afraid to put it on my audio rack so it sits on the ground on a couple of wood platforms, but there isn't enough room there either. I am mulling over my long term plans, which I think involve getting a lighter and smaller KT88/6550 integrated - possibly from Opera Consonance. I don't know if the sound will compare however. The tubes would be almost identical, but I know that's not the only factor in a tube amp's sound.
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The Tempest is a nice integrated amp! You may be able to clear up bass with changing of the tubes/tweaking....smearing of sound is more common that we realize until we do something about it. At 60 pounds I would think your audio shelf should be fine. Consonance would be a very good option as well. May cost you a little more new. You should give the Tempest a real shot at being the one for you....seems to be a good match with the 118's. Start of a very unique and special system. The good of the Rouge seem to be more than the bad (size/weight, bass), which all can be corrected. You may want to experiment with tube rolling to get the best out of her as well as tweaking.
 
slippers-on said:
The Tempest is a nice integrated amp! You may be able to clear up bass with changing of the tubes/tweaking....smearing of sound is more common that we realize until we do something about it. At 60 pounds I would think your audio shelf should be fine. Consonance would be a very good option as well. May cost you a little more new. You should give the Tempest a real shot at being the one for you....seems to be a good match with the 118's. Start of a very unique and special system. The good of the Rouge seem to be more than the bad (size/weight, bass), which all can be corrected. You may want to experiment with tube rolling to get the best out of her as well as tweaking.
Click to expand...

Hey Slippers,

The Tempest will stay until the fall at least, at which point I'll likely go for the Consonance if I opt to make a change.

I think my shelf can support the weight too but I dunno...the thought of this amp causing my system to come crashing down in a heap isn't what I want to chance. Better safe than sorry is how I'm feeling at the moment.

Rolling tubes is definitely part of the plan. To be honest though, and this didn't really come across in my last summary, the looser bass is a nice effect. I really dig it. It's a subtle but noticeable thing, giving the bottom end a little more dimensionality and bloom. It's less clinical and flat sounding...not that it sounded clinical and flat before, but relatively speaking.
 
pyrrhon said:
The dealer called Proac and they have shipped last Friday. I should have them home around Tuesday! Do you have any advise on setting or burn time? I plan to do like you did, play them at low levels and gradually raising, not pushing them too early. My amp Is a little naim 5si and I have been told that proac used that same amp at Bristol to demo the 148. Ill post my own review soon when ill. get a sense of the speakers. Your own review have been appreciated and helped me décide for proacs. Thanks!
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How are those 148's sounding now?
 
I put the Tempest up on my rack...it seems to be able to support the weight. This amp is a beast but is oh so sweet sounding and I haven't even upgraded the small tubes yet.

I would still prefer a KT88/6550 amp that has exposed tubes and is a little smaller. Just my preference. I am now leaning towards the Audio Space Galaxy 88 whenever one becomes available. Until then I am content with what I have.
 
schmidtmike7 said:
Anyone here the 148's? Stand mounts and young children aren't mixing well. I see moving to the 148's soon
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Late response because I barely read about hifi anymore. I am with the 148 since 4 months and they are great. I was looking for a Greek review of the 148 and 118 to point to you major differences bUT cant find it anymore bUT ill resume fron memory... The 118 got a big resistor in the crossover so the impedence is 8 ohm while the 148 is 4 ohm, and at 91db the 148 is also much more sensitive. The tweeter is NOT the same and is much better in the 148 and also measure much more linear. Bass is in another league too. The review was very much in favor of the 148. My own feeling let me expect that the 148 is in another world. I wish I could try both but since I like bass the 118 is a no way for me. I'm with a Naim 5si but in the process to get a tube amp from audio research. Not that I dont like naim but I miss tubes! I don't see myself changing these speakers anytime. Usually you loose a bit of imaging with columns but with these imaging and soundstage are very proac if you know what I mean ; ) :thmbsp:
 
Hi guys, just looking into getting a pair of these and wanting some thoughts on if you think I have a good platform to build on. Firstly let me say, I'm very new to the world of audiophile equipment and my first venture into it was to buy a pair of Focal CMS 50's along with an iFi iDSD and iTube. My music is stored on a NAS and that is to be my only source. Anyhow the hiss coming from the Focal's was unbearable and I had to send them back. This was originally for my office but I've now decided to have the setup in the living room and I'm wanting to pair the iFi iDSD and ITube with a Roskan Caspian M2 Integrated amp with these ProAc 118's.

I'm going into this blind as it's really difficult for me to get out and audition speakers but I've been assured I can have a 30 day return if for what ever reason I wasn't happy. I'd originally set my sights on the Kef LS50's but having spoken at length with the chap at AudioAffair he's swung me over to trying these 118's. They actually sound like they'll be more up my street but I until i get them i guess I won't know for sure.

I listen to all sorts of music from Rock to Indie and everything in between. I mainly listen to music like Bob Dylan, The Doors, The Stone Roses, Oasis, The National etc and I've been advised these speakers will be a better fit than the Kef's. Just curious if others think that the Caspian M2 Integrated will be a good pairing with these and also how the iFi iTube and iDSD will marry into the setup.

As I say I'm a total newbie so please bare with me. : )


Thanks.
 
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Jumbosausage said:
Hi guys, just looking into getting a pair of these and wanting some thoughts on if you think I have a good platform to build on. Firstly let me say, I'm very new to the world of audiophile equipment and my first venture into it was to buy a pair of Focal CMS 50's along with an iFi iDSD and iTube. My music is stored on a NAS and that is to be my only source. Anyhow the hiss coming from the Focal's was unbearable and I had to send them back. This was originally for my office but I've now decided to have the setup in the living room and I'm wanting to pair the iFi iDSD and ITube with a Roskan Caspian M2 Integrated amp with these ProAc 118's.

I'm going into this blind as it's really difficult for me to get out and audition speakers but I've been assured I can have a 30 day return if for what ever reason I wasn't happy. I'd originally set my sights on the Kef LS50's but having spoken at length with the chap at AudioAffair he's swung me over to trying these 118's. They actually sound like they'll be more up my street but I until i get them i guess I won't know for sure.

I listen to all sorts of music from Rock to Indie and everything in between. I mainly listen to music like Bob Dylan, The Doors, The Stone Roses, Oasis, The National etc and I've been advised these speakers will be a better fit than the Kef's. Just curious if others think that the Caspian M2 Integrated will be a good pairing with these and also how the iFi iTube and iDSD will marry into the setup.

As I say I'm a total newbie so please bare with me. : )


Thanks.
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The M2 looks like a killer amp. Needless to say, I have not heard it paired with the 118's so it's tough to say, but the ProAc's sound amazing with both the tube and ss gear that I have run them with and I doubt the M2 would have any issues driving them. As long as your room isn't too large, the ProAc's should fill it nicely. They sound just great with my Bryston B60 and based on that I think the M2 will likely be a match.

I have little experience with the LS50, but in my room they were a little thick and muddy sounding for some reason. They had surprising bass weight, sounded tonally accurate, and had a way with communicating a performance that made it sound like the musicians were playing together, i.e. music didn't sound disjointed. With some more effort in terms of set up I think they might have really sounded great but I only had them for a couple of nights and based on what I heard I decided ultimately to pass.

The 118 is all of that only it sounds more open and clear. Not analytical at all - to me it sounds just right. If I had to sum it up in one word I would say they are balanced. Nothing sticks out - not the bass, mids or treble. The mids are more present than other speakers that I've used, and the bottom end is weightier than similarly sized standmounts. So the sound is a little more front row and lively sounding. And while probably not the last word in detail, the ability of the speaker to resolve detail is excellent; nothing ever sounds congested and I can follow all the parts to a performance and distinguish them from each other. I've had them for 8 months now and still love to listen to them. I flirted a bit with buying a floorstander for the ability to play louder but opted to stick because I love what the 118's do and with a well integrated sub I can keep that and get what I might be missing.

I have moved on from my Rogue Tempest though; while sounding sublime through the 118's, I increasingly realized that music sounded a little lifeless. I attribute this to the Rogue's passive preamp section. Many seem to think this is a quality that passive preamps have and I guess that's true. Even though the thing can put out 100 watts and weighed a tonne, I think it's better suited to more high efficiency speakers. It's back to the B60R until I find another tube amp (likely Audio Space or Line Magnetic) that will have a bit more snap to it's sound.
 
Fusion said:
The M2 looks like a killer amp. Needless to say, I have not heard it paired with the 118's so it's tough to say, but the ProAc's sound amazing with both the tube and ss gear that I have run them with and I doubt the M2 would have any issues driving them. As long as your room isn't too large, the ProAc's should fill it nicely. They sound just great with my Bryston B60 and based on that I think the M2 will likely be a match.

I have little experience with the LS50, but in my room they were a little thick and muddy sounding for some reason. They had surprising bass weight, sounded tonally accurate, and had a way with communicating a performance that made it sound like the musicians were playing together, i.e. music didn't sound disjointed. With some more effort in terms of set up I think they might have really sounded great but I only had them for a couple of nights and based on what I heard I decided ultimately to pass.

The 118 is all of that only it sounds more open and clear. Not analytical at all - to me it sounds just right. If I had to sum it up in one word I would say they are balanced. Nothing sticks out - not the bass, mids or treble. The mids are more present than other speakers that I've used, and the bottom end is weightier than similarly sized standmounts. So the sound is a little more front row and lively sounding. And while probably not the last word in detail, the ability of the speaker to resolve detail is excellent; nothing ever sounds congested and I can follow all the parts to a performance and distinguish them from each other. I've had them for 8 months now and still love to listen to them. I flirted a bit with buying a floorstander for the ability to play louder but opted to stick because I love what the 118's do and with a well integrated sub I can keep that and get what I might be missing.

I have moved on from my Rogue Tempest though; while sounding sublime through the 118's, I increasingly realized that music sounded a little lifeless. I attribute this to the Rogue's passive preamp section. Many seem to think this is a quality that passive preamps have and I guess that's true. Even though the thing can put out 100 watts and weighed a tonne, I think it's better suited to more high efficiency speakers. It's back to the B60R until I find another tube amp (likely Audio Space or Line Magnetic) that will have a bit more snap to it's sound.
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Thanks Fusion

I've decided I can't go into this blind so I've booked a day off work next week so that I can drive down and go see and listen to them for myself. It's quite a trek but It's just too much money to spend without hearing them first. Not only that but the more reading that I do the more I see people saying that they should really be paired with a tube amp to get the best out of them. I'm not sure if my itube buffer would give anywhere near the result that a dedicated tube amp would, but again I've never even heard a tube amp!

I've spoken to the guy on the phone and he's setting up a demo for me to listen to a few different configurations, he did mention that the best match they have for the 118's is the Icon Audio line though. These were the four that he mentioned, the first three are within budget but the 4th isn't. I'm not even sure if I'd require the extra power of the 60?

http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/stereo-mk-iii-6as7/

http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/stereo-40-mkiii-2a3/

http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/stereo-40-mk-iii/

http://www.iconaudio.com/portfolio-item/stereo-60-mk-iii/


It's gets so confusing for a total newbie like myself as there's just so many different things to take in to account and with not having a clue about what the so called "sound" is that I like makes choices such as which valves to choose an almost impossible thing to know. Another thing that I'm slightly confused about is the difference in power as opposed the solid state amps. I recall reading about the LS50's and many people stating that they were fussy and really needed an amp nearer the 100w per channel rather than near the lower end so how would a tube amp with only say 2 x 20w cope with the LS50's?

So many questions so I better stop now! lol I'm just glad I'm going down to listen for myself before I make any decisions.
 
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Good call. Listening for yourself is best because no matter what we tell you this will come down to how you like what you hear. That said, what you hear at an audio store won't be what you hear at home, since your room will greatly affect the sound.

But I think you mentioned this store has a 30 day return period if you don't like what you bought, so it sounds like the risk is relatively small. You should get to hear the system in your own home before there is no turning back.

As for ProAc's and tubes, I believe that ProAc speakers are designed with tube amps and thus they are a natural match. But, I'm not sure that ProAc designs all of their speakers in this way. Even if they do, they are known to work well with both solid state and tubes. Heck, I just determined that I prefer the 118's with my Bryston solid state amp over the Rogue tube amp. Even though I will likely go with tubes in the long run, the Bryston/ProAc combo is great. I could easily live with that pairing. I would definitely recommend listening to the ProAc's with the Roksan amp as well if you can, not just the tube gear.

ProAc are not difficult speakers to drive...40 watts should be plenty unless you want to go real loud in a medium-large sized room, in which case a larger speaker is likely a better bet anyways. I listen to mostly rock and in my small room I can turn it up and it fills the room with sound just fine. ProAc recommends 15 watts to drive the 118 at a minimum, so a 40 watt tube amp works and in fact on the ProAc website they even state that running the speakers with a low wattage tube amp is fine.

The LS50 by most accounts is more difficult to drive, so I'd be a little less sure whether a 40 watt tube amp would work (let alone a 20 watt tube amp). Watts alone don't tell the whole story though...just because an amp has a relatively low wattage spec doesn't necessarily mean that it cannot handle difficult loads. The Icon amps could probably handle the LS50; you'd use the 4ohm taps rather than the 8. But I think a ProAc speaker would be a more natural match.
 
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Thanks for the link to the review and mentioning the WhatHiFi review. It's a typical WHF review, however I do agree with them wholeheartedly about the speaker. I have mine set up the same way they had theirs...lots of space around the speakers with the tweeters on the inside (never tried them otherwise) and slightly toed in. I had them toed in more at first but found that they sounded best with less toe in.

Agreed also with their comments on impressive bass response without the loss of clarity. That and being a lively sounding speaker that is open and highly resolving. The 118's tick more boxes than most speakers I've had the pleasure of listening to. They are an exciting and fun listen without being harsh or fatiguing.

Looking forward to reading the Polish review when I have some more time.
 
Interesting, I found the ProAcs from decades ago needed less toe in than you would think, they opened up nicely when you got it right. And yes, they needed lots of space, even the small Super Tablettes.
 
pyrrhon said:
what hifi gave the usual non informative review to the 118. A good 5 stars but I found the polish review I talked about in my last post and decided to add it here to back my claims. It contains measurements and you can use Google translate to read it.

http://avtest.pl/zestawy-glosnikowe/item/212-proac-studio-118-kontra-studio-148
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for digging this up. Ill have to google translate it but I see myself getting the 148's maybe the D20R's but there a grand more.
 
Well sorry to say but I'm boxing up the 118's to the 148's. I'll be sorry to see these go but standmounts and children don't mix. I'm happy to here the good things here though
 
That's cool...I'll be interested in hearing how the 148's sound compared to their smaller counterpart. If they sound different or just a bigger version of the same speaker.

I am still loving the 118's. I still marvel at how much weight and body a small speaker like this can reproduce, without sacrificing separation, speed, and clarity. Getting close to one year of ownership. Not planning on making a change.

I'll be adding a tube integrated and using it and the B60 at different points. And I'll probably be moving to vdH interconnects and a Rega P5 over the TD309. Those are the near term changes. Main source (CD player) and speakers are set. Amps are pretty much set. To be honest, I wonder why I should even both with tubes when the Bryston sounds so good and is trouble and worry free. But I'll live with them for a year or so and see how I feel. I don't mind keeping both tubes and ss on hand.

I still want to upgrade a Technics 1200 table to get it sounding it's best. That might be my long-term analog rig. There are so many mods you can do to a 1200 to address it's issues and take its performance to another level. I love how easy cart changes are with that table - a big reason for pursuing this. I think that might be where I go with analog in the long-run.
 
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