My dream speaker - RS1b

Hello Klaus, My RS1B mid/high towers were rewired with Van Den Hul by a UK high end retailer. I was told that it was a large improvement, I have no complaints.

Mike
 
Hi RS1B owners,

I am considering the Manley Neo-Classic 250 Monoblocks for the mid/high towers. The problem being that the UK importer doesn't do auditions as the amplifiers are built to order. I have never bought without an audition before, especially at this price point!
From researching it appears to be a safe sonic bet BUT its a lot to pay if its not right.
Has anyone heard the Neo-Classic 250's driving the RS1B's here...if so I'd very much appreciate your opinion. Thanks Mike
 
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I picked up the RS1b shipment yesterday from Boston. It barely fit in the Durango. I had been busy with work and other things - did not get much chance to play. Just unwrapped them - will take pics and post tomorrow.

The original owner - soldered all the emits and emims wiring, so we had to unsolder them before shipping. I should have had the foresight to ask the seller to label each wire - but he told me that he already took many high resolution pictures so that I can put them together. I was too excited at that time to think twice. Turned out - after close examination, I have no clue on what to do and how to connect them back. I have the pictures but the cables are of the same color (??). So, for the mean time, I picked up a pair of RS1b passive crossover (latest edition) from ebay. I plan to use this first until I have time to study more on how I can rewire the first pair of the crossover.

I spent about $250 just on the bubble wraps and another $250 on shipping the emims, emits, mid/high cabinet bases, passive/active crossovers separately by UPS. The shipping of the base towers and the mid/high panel is another $500. Total shipping from Seattle to NH is $1000. No damage during shipping.

For now, I am planning to use Carvers tfm-45 and -42. I have a pair of each model and I plan to use them as "mono-blocks". I will use just one channel out of each of the four amplifiers. Any comment about this configuration? I read that in this mode, the one channel can "borrow" from the other unused channel if needed.
 
wow ! just wow! I really would like a set of those but can't, congrats on the purchase I'm sure you will enjoy them. Take your time now that you have them. :thmbsp:

:lurk:

John M
 
Wow, you are a brave, and lucky man shipping that UPS. I had mine shipped from Mass. to Florida, and had them packed by Craters and Freighters and trucked on pallets. No damage, but it cost me a couple of grand. Didn't have to unsolder anything, though. Enjoy them. I love mine. Nothing else comes close to an orchestra at full blast. Just ask my neighbors.

Bill
 
Not sure if I understood you correctly on your plans for driving these with your carvers. Not sure about if you plan on using your amps wiring them parallel or bridged but you might want to ask someone who is a bit more knowledgeable them me. I think that it might be a problem with speakers that might have lowerer impedance ratings and the amp won't be able to supply the needed current at those lower impedances when wired that way. Just think my might check on that. Now if you plan on using one amp say the 45 to run the bass towers using one channel for each tower that would work, and then the other amp the 42 for the mid/hi panels than that would work as well, except for one very inportant thing, neither of these amps from what I see have any gain controls on them. I personally would not want to use a pair of amps for these speakers if they didn't have some gain or attentuation controlls to get your bass and mid/hi panels balanced. You can get opinions from others but in my personal use of these speakers I want to be able to have complete ablity to get a good balance between the bass and mid/hi panels and the only way that I have found is for the two amps that you use is to have a means to control their outputs.
 
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Congradulations! RS1b is my vintage dream speaker so I can understand your excitement.

PS... The pic with you grinning from ear to ear is priceless. :):thmbsp:
 
Pics below.
 

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Another set of pics.

During shipping, I disassembled the mid/high towers. I shipped the bases separately - and strapped the mid/high panels to the woofer towers. That is why there are only two packages.

As you can see, the passive crossover has been significantly modified. The active crossover consisted of two units (not shown), with the power supply in separate metal box.

These 1bs are in my basement now. I will be putting in area rugs to reduce the effects of the tile floor. I moved the IIbs upstairs. There are also pics of the IIas that I am still restoring. I have been somewhat disappointed with the 2.5s - after the DIY refoaming, they just do not sound right - but I could not find any rubbing of the voice coils.

@kenboyd - I see what you are saying. The followings are the reasoning - let me know if this makes sense or not. I am a novice, so please feel free to point out my incorrect thinking. The 45 and 42 are basically the same amps (different meters - one VU and and LED) and Rolland has matched the gains on them. The 1b manual said that it is not recommended to use an amp in the bridged mode. To be safe and have more controls, what I can do is to use two DACs (GF DAC 09 and 11) that have gain controls. Say that the pair of 42s for the base towers and receiving signals from the DAC 09. The pair of 45s for the mid/hi panels and receiving signals from the DAC 11. To balance the base and mid/hi - I can use the gain controls from the DACs.

It will be sometime before I can listen - as I am finishing the basement at the same time.
 

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I wonder what ever happen to that other AK members RS-1a's that he got that were brand new in the boxes, with walnut panels instead of oak, those were some really outstanding looking speakers.
 
"The 1b manual said that it is not recommended to use an amp in the bridged mode."

That statement must be taken as gospel. Do not run a bridged amp into the 1b's IF YOU ARE USING THE INFINITY ACTIVE CROSSOVER. A bridged amp with the original active crossover may blow the amps and/or the speakers for the same reason it would if it were connected out of phase....the servo arrangement.

If you use a different crossover such as the DBX or the Rane, you can use a bridged amp without any difficulty, because you no longer have to deal with the servo in the Infinity active crossover.

Bill
 
Some progress in getting the 1b's to sing. See pics.

I painted the base of the mid/high panels with texture paint (with speckle of gold color particles) and then put on few layers of sprayed on poly. Then, I cleaned the panels and the bass towers with Touch of Orange rejuvenator and then polish them with the Touch of Orange beeswax. I also used the beeswax on the body of the emims.

The wires were soldered to the emims and emits - so I used a solder and solder wick to clean up the terminals. Afterward, I used a fine grade sand paper to roughen up the terminals before finally clean them with acetone. They should make good contacts now.

I measured each emim and took note its resistance value - and pair up ones with the same resistance values. All of them measured between 2.9 and 3.1 - and except of one pair, all of them can be paired up. For each pair, I installed them for the left and right at the same location.

The emits also look good - but I decided to use my remaining NOS emits. So, the emits are all brand new in this 1b's.

The original passive crossovers are quite a mess - I should have put a label on which wire goes to which emim. I need to take a look at the first owner's hand notes to figure it out. For now, I will be using a pair of the crossovers that I picked up from ebay. The seller (altarego) is very reputable and it was nice dealing with him. This pair has all the black wires - and comparing the face plate with the pics at the "infinity classics" site, I think it is the latest edition. Also upon comparing with the original crossovers, I also found that the original crossovers also have the same exact face plate - so I think they were also of the latest edition before the first owner decided to mod them.

The only remaining thing is to connect the wires. The new crossovers that I bought - are missing the terminal clips. They were also soldered to the emim/emit terminals (???). Why is this so common practice. I have been scouring parts express and the internet but could not yet find the suitable terminals that will fit the gauge of the wires.

I am really curious to hear how these 1b's sound. I recently put on a rather thick carpet (as area rug) to the floor to help with the reflection.

I found as much enjoyment in putting things together as listening to them. I found that I am becoming very picky in what I want to listen - I just could not listen to bad recordings - and that really limit to what I listen. I was so impressed with the Kappa 6 when I first got them. Then, after listening to the 2b's - I just could not enjoy listening to the Kappa 6. The sound stage is missing - or my ears are just so spoiled now.

More update in the next week or so.
 

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Yup it appears you have the latest version of the RS-1b's, they look very nice. Looks like a great setup as far as the room looks pretty large that really makes a difference.:thmbsp:
 
Got a chance to open the last box that contained the active crossover. See attached pictures. It is heavily modded - with a separate power supply box - very heavy - containing all those big capacitors.

I never looked at the inside of the unmodded active 1b's crossover - so I assumed the the original capacitors in it were removed.

I am still having trouble to connect the wiring from the passive crossovers to the mid/hi drivers. The wire ends have solder on them and it increased the size from 12 ga to at least 10 ga. Cannot find female terminals that can take 10 ga wire. I am thinking about cutting the ends off and then attach the new terminals - however, even finding good quality female terminals that can take 12 ga wire is difficult. Any suggestion?

I am planning to test the active crossover today - using my kappa 6.1 (bi-ampable). I know it won't sound right but at least it may tell me if the active crossover is still in good shape after shipping. Any comment on whether this is a good or bad idea?

Thanks much.
 

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I have three of the Active crossovers, here is a pic of one of mine, all three are much different from each others

Thank you Ken - I appreciate it. It seems that the seller took the "transformer" out and replaced it with the external power supply box.

Tomorrow, I will try to use this crossover with my kappa 6.1 - if this is a bad idea, then please let me know - otherwise, I will report either success or I have a blown Kappa and/or Carver. The Carver is non-inverting, so at least I have done some homework. I really have some reservation to plug that power supply box into the outlet. Those capacitors are bigger and more numerous than what I have seen inside my carvers.
 
I have three of the Active crossovers, here is a pic of one of mine, all three are much different from each others

Thank you Ken - I appreciate it. It seems that the seller took the "transformer" out and replaced it with the external power supply box.

Tomorrow, I will try to use this crossover with my kappa 6.1 - if this is a bad idea, then please let me know - otherwise, I will report either success or I have a blown Kappa and/or Carver. The Carver is non-inverting, so at least I have done some homework. I really have some reservation to plug that power supply box into the outlet. Those capacitors are bigger and more numerous than what I have seen inside my carvers.

Yikes, I would be nervous about running a different brand of bass drivers than the one designed for the active crossover. For one thing those active crossovers are full of OP amps, that are pretty easy to fry, I had a pretty long talk with Bill Miller about them. He doesn't even like to fool with them any more because all it take is customer to hook it up wrong and you blow the op amps. If I recall there are at maybe 8 or more op amps in that crossover. I think the crossover uses some method of measuring resistance to the bass drivers to increase the amps current to correct the bass drivers. Unlike the Beta's which have a bass driver which measures the movement by a special accelerator thing. So if you hook up the unit to a driver set up that has some different resistance it might cause some real problems. I don't know this to be the case, but I personally would just hook it up to the speakers it was designed for, and when powering up keep the volume at zero, and then slowly bring it up. If you amp for the bass drivers have gain controls, I would also put them at minimum and then very slowly advance them up. The first pair of my RS-1b's I purchased the OEM crossover had a problem, the customer who sold them to me that something didn't sound right with the speakers but he never could figure out what it was. When I purchased them and hooked them up I knew instantly the problem was the bass was hardly there. I used a Rane active crossover and it was like night and day. I tore it apart and talked to a few people including Bill Miller who is suppose to have a pretty good rep on these speakers, he told me, replace all the op amps. That is what I did. Most are easy to get to, but their are a few on the back board which requires having to remove all the rear terminals to get to the board. When replacing the OP amps, they have to be placed in a certain direction, their is a small inditation on the top of the chips, make sure you place all of them if you ever have to, with the small dent in the right direction. I found plenty of sources for the right op amp on line, I purchased like 20 of them for pretty cheap money. Mr Miller told me that the op amps were the problem 9 times out of 10, so if yours has a problem thats where I would start.

As for your outboard power supply who ever modified it, sure beleived in a lot of extra capacitance, I would have never thougth that the crossover would need that much capacitance, but then what do I know.
 
Thanks much Ken! Disaster avoided. Well, then I will focus first on getting the passive crossovers connected.
 
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