Official Jolida JD9 thread

Thanks heyraz - you've cleared some of the mist for me. Today I'm going to experiment - first I'll take out the jolida and put back the vsps (a pain to do as I had it hardwired and even then the 5mv output might be too much for vsps and affect quality) if the grado improves then I'll change the jolida. If there's no real change in character then I'll put the jolida back and try my old empire cart. This should help identify the weak link.

My deck is a lenco and is fantastic - the arm is a low mass ADC carbon fibre and I think is a good match based on what other people have said - namely that the grado likes either a very light arm or a slightly heavy medium mass arm.

Upgrading is a pain - someone is offering me a grace f9 ruby for a very good price as well as a very nice all valve longdog phono stage which they say can easily handle the grados output -so I have options - just need to pin down which is the best solution - I'd like to keep the grado and hope it isn't the problem.

Adrian - Spain
 
OK after a nightmare getting the vsps working again I can say the problem is between cart and jolida. With the vsps the balance is much better and there a sweetness to vocals. I'm sure that with my lower output empire there jolida would sound much better but the grado offers much more transparency and nuance over the empire so I'd prefer to keep the cart than the jolida - it's up for sale!

Adrian - Spain
 
Honestly, before you sell the Jolida, you should try a low output cartridge. I'm not sure what your budget is, but I'd consider one of the Grado Statements (except for the platinum because it's a glorified Gold in a wooden body), a Denon or an Ortofon. Just check the compatibility with your arm (See Vinyl Engine).
http://www.vinylengine.com/tonearm_database.php

Between the Grado Reference and the Jolida, I'd sell the Reference. I think most low output cartridges sound better than most high output cartridge. They just have less mass to move and have a better attack. That's not to say all high output cartridges are inferior, but Moving Coil seems to be the way to go. The funny thing is that Joseph Grado is credited as the inventor of the moving coil cartridge, yet he chose to produce a completely different design, the Moving Iron. The Statement series uses much less wire to make their coil, less resistance and more nuance, but lower output. You just need more clean gain to really enjoy the cartridge. Moving coil cartridge can use a step up cartridge, MI or MM cannot. At least the JD9 has a lot of gain. It's just too much to properly enjoy a high output cartridge. In my opinion.

I'm only saying this because my Statement Sonata1 is so much better than my Reference Sonata1...a major upgrade kind of better. There is so much more nuance to it. For me, what Grado said "you owe it to yourself to try a Statement cartridge" was true. My Reference Sonata1 has less than 100 hours on it, the Statement was a joy right out of the box.

As I stated, my belief is to start at the beginning of the reproduction chain, which means the cartridge. Read some reviews, do some research, I think most people prefer anything low output to anything high output. At least the Jolida JD9 can get you started.

Contact Grado, they're in Brooklyn NY and a recent peek at their website indicates they have an in-house retipping service. Perhaps they'll give you credit if you want to switch.

You might also consider the possibility that your Grado cartridge is no good or otherwise under performing. It's output is compatible with most inexpensive to moderately priced phono stages. If you think this is a possibility, you can send it back to Grado for an evaluation. It's another way to get the cartridge through their doors. Maybe the problem IS at the beginning of the reproduction chain. You can ask Grado to examine the stylus.
 
Thanks heyraz- im listening to it at the moment very badly connected to a disembowelled VSPS and in all respects bar bottmn end oomff (how do describe it - it's like the bass is being polite compared to a an overly friendly mid and top end) had I not put the jolida into the system im sure I would be thinking only good things about the grado in comparison to the empire. I'm not sure what route to take. I'm not rich and right now with the grado I seem to have traded a warm bottom end and deep soundstage for detail and transparency and less deep soundstage.- im not sure I'd be happy about this long term but am aware that the cart isn't broken in. My NOS Empire 2000IIIe changed profoundly over the first month's. At the same time I would like to have the best I can afford and if the statement series are better then maybe I'll see if I can sort something with Grado and trade up.

If i go this route the jolida is out and i sell it and stick with the VSPS (funds). Then i need to decide Whether to stick with the VSPS or take up an offer of a longdog phono stage which are said to be excellent and can take the high output of the grado reference - this brings me to my last option - stick with the grado reference for a while and change phono stages.

Both the first and second option involve a lot of money (Statement 3000$ longdog 1200$ - I like the later option at least until my bank account is happy again.

Oh another option - I've always wondered about the Grace F9 Ruby and someone is offering me over for a nice price - it was the route i was going to take before buying the grado. scratch

So - if sticking with the grado - any advice about them in general re setup? Mine tracks well at 1.5 but sounds a little better at 1.7. I'm not 100% sure if mine is aligned correctly - that coffin shape doesn't help with my protractor so am waiting for a new type to be delivered.

Adrian - Spain
 
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The cartridge takes some 50 hours to break in. My Sonata is very sensitive to proper alignment. I never noticed any of this until I got the JD9. After each incremental JD9 improvement I was able to hear something else wrong about the cartridge alignment. Very sensitive and demands proper geometry.

Why did you purchase the Master? That's a very expensive cartridge to start with.
 
Reputation. And I'd heard that wood bodied added a degree of warmth - I hate cold sterile sound.

Having listened to the same reference tracks tonight with the VSPS - there's a marked difference between it and the Jolida . the jolida increased gain way too much which exxagerates what might be a characteristic of the Grado - namely to put performer or soloist out up front close and person and with alarming speed attack and delay. Session musicians take their place firmly behind the performer. The VSPS doesn't exxagerate this.

What the two share is a lack of bass - great for leading edge cello but definitely rolled off at about 60hz - I'm guessing. Rock/electronica tracks with deep bass become something different.

It's strange. I'll fiddle with alignment when the new mirrored protector arrives.

I have wondered whether the empire might sound spectacular in combo with the jolida loaded right...

Adrian - Spain
 
It sounds to me like you should listen to CD's until you can check the cartridge alignment. What kind of Empire do you have? What's the spec's? Maybe it's a better match for the Jolida than the Grado. In my estimate, the Jolida is a good phono stage for Lo Output Cartridges, 1mv or less.
Like I said...I hate upgrading.
 
Anyone used an AT OC9/iii with the JD9 and have suggestions for settings? I just picked one up and should be able to install it tomorrow, so I'd love to hear thoughts on where to start.
 
I currently have it loaded at 230 ohms and the first gain switch and hi out. Sounds good, but if anyone has found a better combination, I'm all ears.
 
With 5751s, I get about 70% of the gain, so the middle gain switch would give me about 60dB, correct?
My cartridge's output is 0.5mv, very similar to yours. Currently I'm running the JD9 with the middle switch up. It also runs very well with the first switch up, I just need to push my line stage a little more. Maybe a little less slam when using the first gain switch.

It depends on how much gain the rest of your system has. My el84 amp has less gain than my el34 amp, so I need more JD9 output when I use my el84 amp.

5751's will lower the output slightly, but it's main advantage is lower noise, lower microphonics (triple mica's) and the fact that its lower gain is less likely to overload the next stage. However, from what I've been reading about the SRPP circuit used on the JD9's tube board, the purpose doesn't seem to be as much about voltage gain as it is about current and the ability to drive into the next components impedance. The SRPP is a Push-Pull circuit comprised of a top and bottom triode. Critical to its performance is maintaining balance between the two halves during operation and keeping each half within its linear zone of operation. Little things like resistance and capacitance affect its operation, and different tubes have characteristics other than gain that can affect the operation of the SRPP. Things like Plate Resistance, which are very different when comparing 12ax7 to 12au7 has a great effect as does the gain of the tube. I'll have more to say once I've finished understanding the SRPP operation and tried a few different things out for myself.

I tried 5751's in my JD9, I can't say it was an earth shattering difference. Same with 12au7 and it's variants. Same for 7025.

Is there a reason why you want to cut the gain with 5751's? Is there something about the JD9 you are unhappy with?
 
I bought my JD9 used, and it came with Sylvania 5751s installed. I was using a Shure m97xe/Jico SAS up until now, so the lower gain was welcome. Now, I'm not as concerned with lowering gain, just optimizing everything.
 
Sylvania's "The Gold Brand" GB-5751 with triple mica's is a premium tube. Holy Grail status and very valuable. Really sweet sounding and a very well controlled. There are a few varieties of that tube out there, the best has a deep flashing that nearly covers the top mica and has gold pins.

I used them in my JD9 for a while but wasn't satisfied with the sound. I found optimizing the sound for my Grado Statement Sonata1 cartridge entailed a little more than changing opamps, tubes and the big capacitor on the tube board. All of that helped, but I thought more work was needed.

Jolida touts the JD9 as a phono stage that can handle any cartridge, which may technically be true, but I think in it's stock form it works best with low output cartridges. The problem with all of that gain however is increased noise (you know, the signal to noise ratio thing), so the circuit itself needs to be made quieter. At least that's what I thought which seemed to prove true after I replaced all of the components on the solid state board and changed a few things about the circuit. It worked out for me, but I can't guarantee it would work for everybody.

I think a lot of noise comes straight from the solid state board, which then gets amplified by the tube board. You should try different tubes in your JD9, NOS 12ax7, 7025, 12au7. You may like one of them better.

But as far as 5751's go, if your Sylvania's are triple mica "The Gold Brand", you won't find a better 5751 tube.
 
Thanks for all the info so far. I'm not positive that these are Sylvanias. They simply have 5751 near the top with a series of dashes and dots below the numbers. No other labels of any kind. Certainly not the gold ones.
I agree that there is more 'slam' with the second switch on. I think I have settled on the with 230 ohms as a sweet spot for this setup.
I do notice increased noise (white noise-ish) that is essentially inaudible once the needle hits the groove. Groove noise drowns it out, much less once the music starts. Regardless, I'm curious what tubes you who are running LOMCs are using. I like the detail I'm getting, but I feel like they could be quieter with maybe a tad more tightness in the bass. Upscale Audio has a few of interest... Mullards, Tung-Sols, and these Gold Lions... http://www.upscaleaudio.com/gold-lion-ecc83-b759/ though I've read that the GLs are not the best with LOMCs.
Any suggestions here are greatly appreciated.
 
Tubes evaluation gets very personal, ties into your entire system and room.

I don't have lots of tube experience but I have tried a handful in the JD9.

So far all the NOS tubes I have heard sound better to me than the current production 12ax7 Russian Sovtek, Tung Sol, and Mullard reissues.

For MM I really liked the RFT 12au7s and GE JG 6189 12au7s. The lower gain was beneficial. Relatively lower cost NOS options.

Now running MC with 0.5 mv output. NOS RCA 12ax7 grey plates sound very good too me. Nice balance, lots of air. Would love to try RCAs with long black plates someday.

Everyone's mileage does vary.

Good luck, keep us posted.

Bob
 
They simply have 5751 near the top with a series of dashes and dots below the numbers.

That means they're GE. Still not a bad tube. I'm running a GE 5751 in one of my preamps right now, they're very good.
 
Good to know. They definitely sound good, I just think I could find something that's a little quieter with tighter bass.
 
Yeah. I figured as much. Either way, I've swapped out the 637s with 627s (a bit cleaner and ever so slightly more detailed) and have Tungsram 12ax7s on the way (I'll update once those are in).
 
I just put the Tungsrams in, and I think this is how I'll be leaving things for now. They're a fair bit quieter than the 5751s they replace. The 5751s may have reached a little deeper, but these are overall tighter, sweeter. If they break in and open up a bit more, they wil be stellar, but I'm plenty happy with the synergy of the whole system now.
 
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