Let's talk about the Naim sound

davidro

Lunatic Member
So I hear people saying the new Naim sound ain't what it used to be like.
The new Naim sounds like any other high-end stuff, whereas the old Naim sounds special and different from all else.

What do AK folks say about this?
 
Well, where to begin with this one? I started out with Naim very early 80's with a couple "chrome bumper" pieces, but really enjoyed the switch as the "olive" line came around. I started the olive series with a Nait2, Nat02 tuner and the CDI when it first came out. This eventually morphed into an all-active CDS2/82/Nap-250 pair with Naim SBL's and all the power supplies etc. And now, to the newer, but yes "lower-end" stuff, the Uniti/Nap-100.

If I was to try and make it simple, I would say to my own ears that the early gear including the olive range, had a more bouncy/funky way it just seemed to groove, don't know why or how to explain that. Yes, PRAT and all that. I also felt the frequency extremes were somewhat rolled off, but ultimately, it was just fun to listen to, especially when a pair of Linn Kans or SBL's were on the end of it, but a lot of other speakers worked too, such as Rega and Rogers.

Where I think the new range has gone is it just seems a bit smoother now across the frequencies and not as rolled off at the extremes, although I still think it is very slightly still compared to other gear-but which is right? I also believe their gear now works with a wider variety of speakers than it might have used to. Either way, I have always loved Naim for many reasons, their service and spare parts is extremely good, they take very good care of their customers. Build quality and general longevity of a model is fairly long term in the audio world today. But most of all, I just love the music they make. Not cheap by any means, but very solid and a good investment long term.

With that said, I do not typically get along with their speakers like I do their electronics. My active SBL's were quite a challenge indeed to get setup and sound right, but when on, a very good little speaker, and run active, in another league from passive. FWIW, not much really.....Tim
 
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I will add another little piece here as I think about it, I think the new range is more likely to be used with other manufacture's gear, such as their CD players, streamers etc., whereas the older gear, one tended to build a Naim System. It seemed more likely to work that way back then. Now seems to be a bit more "open" I would say. Tim
 
Thanks Tim. Your description enforces my impression that the older Naim might be more interesting than its current offering.
In fact, I might get a chance to take a dip soon albeit temporarily.
I am told however connection can be tricky with them. Wonder what that means.
 
I'm not sure what the old Naim sound was but I have spent some time with the Nait 5 and Naim XS 2 at the beginning of the year. My impressions were of very powerful sounding amps with lightning fast transients, quicker than anything I've heard in terms of pace for sure. Listening carefully though I noticed that this pace was at the expense of the natural decay of notes and some considerable loss (too much) of acoustic ambience and stage depth when compared to my own Creek. I also noted a distinct prominence in the upper midband that began to wear on me after a couple of hours of listening, I was very relieved when the XS2 was replaced with an LFD IV integrated.

I can see how many might like the current Naim sound in a demo situation where it impresses right from the gun with its grip, authority and speed but I came away with the impression that its sound was very Hi Fi rather than making music faithful to the original. Too many times I missed out on what I consider the natural decay of notes such was its hurry to move onto the next then the next then the next, for me this presentation doesn't feel either correct or worth the musical trade offs. Not my cup of tea and I'm glad I can now rule them out as something I'd wish to listen to or own.
 
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David, I have enjoyed all the various years and levels of Naim for the most part, and while I can say the earlier gear was maybe a touch more "exciting" in some respects, the newer gear hasn't lost any of its musical ability either. I find it hard to describe sounds in general, almost like trying to explain to someone how a particular food tastes, you have to experience it for yourself! As Spektre above came to realize, it just wasn't for him.

I do think the current range is a bit easier on the ear or somewhat smoother-not to be confused with lack of anything such as bass/drive etc., but even with that said, various pieces within the Naim family have somewhat distinct sonic flavours as well, yet still cut from the same cloth.

As far as connections and being tricky, it all depends. Most of the lower end gear, and even some of the mid-level gear has gone to RCA's as well as the normal for Naim classic DIN connectors. So integrating most of their integrateds with other makes of gear isn't as much of an issue anymore. Cables can always be bought through Chord or Crimson that have DIN to RCA, there are ways around some of the odd connections. Even some of the newer gear like my Uniti, doesn't have quite the old-school rules about using their own speaker cable-Naca4/5 and minimum lengths etc.

If you get to the point of being able to demo some of it, get a good dealer and let him advise you there, that is very important! There are also quite a few Naimies here and on Pink Fish Forums that are maybe less biased than say the regular Naim forum. Either way, enjoy, and let your ears be the judge! There are too many good makes of gear out there, Naim certainly isn't the "best". Tim
 
Thanks Tim. Your description enforces my impression that the older Naim might be more interesting than its current offering.
In fact, I might get a chance to take a dip soon albeit temporarily.
I am told however connection can be tricky with them. Wonder what that means.

Older Naim has their own dedicated 5 pin din connections at rear which virtually rules out the use of other manufacturers brands. The modern stuff has both RCA phono outs as well as Naim's own din connector.
 
Yes 5 pin din to RCA was what I had in my mind. I think I can get some generic cables.

If I do get a hold of this older Naim gear this will be an interesting Christmas holiday as I'm awaiting a pair of new stand-mounts too. I am excited to be acquainted with the Naim sound!
 
David, I have even made up some of my own interconnects for older Naim gear when money was tight. If you can solder, the PREH brand of DIN connectors are fairly cheap. Of course there is always used market too for such things.

What Naim components are you looking at if I might ask?
 
I frankly don't know. I spotted some Naim gear at the storage of a recent audiophile acquaintance last Saturday. Knowing he doesn't currently use them (and there were stacks of such) I asked him if I can borrow them for a month. He's kindly agreed but we will see if I actually do get a hold of them this weekend.

Here's a photo with that Naim gear in the bottom. Olive?

FxCam_1386404823245_zps7e51d0f2.jpg
 
David, that is what is called the "chrome-bumper" era of gear, the olive gear has a more olive fascia and no chrome edges around the casings.

That looks like a Nac-32.5 preamp, maybe Nap-110 amplifier, and a Snaps or Hicap power supply. Either way, nice units and fun to play with!

Have fun! Tim
 
Oh ok so that's so called chrome bumper eh? I hear the olive is better.
Guess even if I get to hear this I will have to try the olive one day.
Talk about chronological pilgrimage!
 
Yep, obviously the ones with the chrome edges on the case....but these are indeed classics and still sound very good, although they are probably ready for a servicing by now if they haven't already had one by now.

I have spent more time with the olive series myself, but as I have said, they all are good, extremely enjoyable pieces. Have fun with that pilgrimage Dave!
 
I concur with TimF's thoughts about Naim gear, past and present.

My adventures with Naim gear started with the Nait 2 around 25 years ago and currently use the Naim gear in my sig. One thing I've found with Naim gear is that it allows you to forget about the gear and enjoy the music, resulting in less gear swapping versus other brands. The Naim pieces that I currently use are going on about 10 years and still very much enjoyable.

The other thing about Naim gear is that their optional power supplies or ones by Teddy Pardo, goes a long ways in improving the sound quality.

IMO, the newer Naim and the older Naim gear have the same "house" sound. However, the newer Naim gear offers both DIN and RCA connections, has better extension at the frequency extremes and in general has better soundstaging capabilities, especially in depth, over the older stuff. If given a choice, I wouldn't hesitate to choose newer Naim gear over any of the older olive gear.

While the Naim "house" sound may not be utterly neutral, it is addictive like a bad meth habit. Having said that, I also don't find much of the gear that's mentioned on AK to be the poster child of neutrality whether it's vintage or modern gear that's being discussed.

Also, like TimF, I've never been fond of many of Naim's speaker designs, feeling that designs by Linn, Harbeth, Spendor, Neat and such mate with Naim's gear in a much better way than Naim's own.

Lastly, with the modern Naim stuff, using the DIN connections offers a slightly improved sound over RCA's. The best cables I've found with Naim gear is that from the Chord Co. and even their cheapest ones sound pretty decent. As for speaker cables, just use Naim's NACA5 and be done with it, as it just works with Naim amps plain and simple.
 
I frankly don't know. I spotted some Naim gear at the storage of a recent audiophile acquaintance last Saturday. Knowing he doesn't currently use them (and there were stacks of such) I asked him if I can borrow them for a month. He's kindly agreed but we will see if I actually do get a hold of them this weekend.

Here's a photo with that Naim gear in the bottom. Olive?

FxCam_1386404823245_zps7e51d0f2.jpg

If you do have the opportunity to try this gear out, make sure to only use the Naim NACA[4/5] speaker cable. The CB and Olive amps had no output inductor but instead used the relatively high inductance of the NACA cable as output inductor. If used with normal low inductance cables, the amp could go into oscillation.
 
I had to jig the appointment to pick them up last week since I was busy dating a chick...

So if I don't use this proprietary speaker cables I might bust the amp? That's no good :(
 
What?!! Chick over Naim gear? What the devil! Hah, a man has to do what a man must....she must be quite awesome, well, hopefully anyway!

With regards to the speaker cable, the older Naim gear is a bit sensitive to the cable yes. But there are alternatives. Naim cable is best, but Linn K-20 will work well, Supra also, and any decent stranded cable like RS 56 or the like. Just be careful and you will be okay. I would probably say looking at the age of those Naim pieces, they are not going to be in the best of shape anyway unless your friend has had them serviced in the last few years, so who knows. If nothing else it will be a fun exercise and maybe you will enjoy the listen! Have fun! Tim
 
I've used Naim since meeting Julian Vereker back in about 1974. I bought a chrome bumper amp/preamp (NAP 110 as I recall) from him, and he sent me a couple of spare power boards and output transistors so that I could keep it going. I had to modify the preamp power supply by adding a linear regulator - which he subsequently added to all his amps and which has only now been replaced by a discrete design.
Back in the day the amp was quite stunning. However when I visited a buddy in England who was much into the business he said that after Naim had fixed his NAP250 (it had blown up, a thing they were prone to do) it no longer sounded as good and he didn't use it any more.
I compared mine to Phase Linear 400's, Ampzillas, and all those dreadful receivers we sold at Pacific Stereo, and it was generally agreed that it blew them all away. It had enough current drive capability that it could really control the speakers. Nowadays that's normal for amps, so that advantage has gone away.
Mine still works. I use it occasionally to drive my old Quad ELS57's, which it does with aplomb.
I got a Supernait to drive the Quad 2805's which it did creditably, but it really didn't have the voltage for them (as opposed to power). The Sanders Magtec into the Sanders 10d speakers has enough oomph to go loud without the "Oh God it's screaming" feeling as the amp begins to clip, as did the Naim into the Quads.
If you don't mind listening at normal ass opposed to loud levels, the Supernait/Quad 2805 combination is really very nice. Anyone want to buy it?
 
Bhazen, very good indeed. I posted a reply to you and Tom-older thread on Pink Fish, that will give you a start if you check there. Give me a PM if you want any details!

In general though, extremely happy with both the Larsen and Naim, and also as a pairing, very good! Tubes also work well with the Larsens too, had an opportunity to listen to a 15 wpc EL34 driven Prestige Eggshell amp on them and was very impressed with that too!

Tim
 
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