High Voltage supply for Electrostatics

Thinker

Super Member
Hi everybody,

I got these a while back and thought I would finally take a crack at them. the voltages are very low so I'm not sure if it's the rectifier or the caps, any help would be appreciated.

(the larger caps are 0.1 uF @ 600 WV and the smaller ones are 0.05 uF but I can't make out the rating without removing one.)

I'm leaning towards the rectifier but I'm not sure what rating I should go with for a replacement.








 
I'd be looking into that component named "Selemax". That tells me it might be a selenium rectifier (x2). Selenium's tend to get resistive and develop large voltage drops.

Can you wrangle a schematic?
 
no luck on the schematics I've tried, I've tried looking for selemax too but no luck on that front either I was just going to replace it with two diodes but I have no clue on what rating to get. 1,000v? higher?
 
How are you measuring the voltages? If you're using a standard volt meter, it is likely loading down the high voltage supply just trying to get a reading. You'll need a high voltage probe that will have a high resistance for this reason.

Even with that probe, you'll need to calculate loading of the test gear on the actual voltage being read. Most high voltage probes provide the method to do so.

Judging by the age and make up of the resistors, I'd estimate you're dealing with a 60s vintage electrostatic speaker - Jantzen?

The caps gotta go. The selenium rectifier's gotta go. Check the resistors and replace any that are more than 10% out of tolerance.

What condition are the panels themselves?

Cheers,

David
 
Electrostat 4a's the panels are in good shape.

dshoaf do you agree with Jon_Logan's diode recommendation or should I go with something else, and should I stick with the cap valves? and/or should I go higher with the voltage rating?

I'm new to electrostatic speakers all help/suggestions are appreciated.
 
Jon's recommendation is a diode with a 4 kV reverse voltage spec. That should be sufficient for the application. Need to see a schematic to confirm, though.

Cheers,

David
 
I do not know about these but some JansZens ran 5kv so I would suggest going higher to be safe.
 
As above: replicate that entire contraption.. with fresh / new boards and bits.
That pore thing looks like something that survived D Day and was subsequently DIY'd .. repeatedly.

PS; Odd you can't find caps. But they are stackable.
Caps stack opposite to series/parallel resistors :)
 
I've started rebuilding the supplies but I just realized that the fuse is a half an amp and the new diodes are rated at a quarter amp should I buy different diodes? Or go ahead with the 1/4 amp ones?
 
Never looked at my later JansZens but the KLH Nines used the same panel as yours and I seem to remember the fuse being 1/2amp slo-blo.

Nothing wrong with moving the diodes up higher as it will not draw more but, will not let go before the fuse, either.
 
I just looked up the cost of diodes that can handle a 1/2 amp at that voltage and they're pricey ($150) unless there's some where else I could buy them , otherwise I'm going to have to stick with the 1/4 amp diodes and hope for the best :-(
 
For what it's worth.

Build your replacement boards on perf board so you have lots of mounting options.

There are only a few parts. Do a point to point hook up drawing and then draw a schematic.

The Ham way to get HV diodes is to stack in series and has been used since Germanium. Conventional wisdom for many years was (and for some still is) to use voltage equalization across each diode. Something like 470K and .01 uf. Diodes got CHEAP so sacrificing a few is no big deal. Resistors & caps price has increased, A lot of discussions were had on the need for voltage equalization and I quit bothering with equalization probably 30 years ago. I usually add an extra diode or 2 to the string in case of Murphy and have yet to blow a string on high voltage supplies for HF linear amps and what have you by diode junction PRV failure. Done some really dumb things and let the magic smoke out.

1N4007 are 1KV @ 1A and cheap as dirt. If you need a few PM me with an address and a few will show up in a plain brown envelope. I have a few thousand of them. If you are so inclined make a small donation to AK.

The board looks like the Selmax module may be 2 strings or singles pointing at or away from each other. A DMM on ohm or diode is a good way to check if it is not blown. You can check against a known good diode. Think 0.6V drop per silicon junction if you have a diode scale.

A complete photo of the front and list of where the wires go would help. Are black & white that go to what I would guess is the transformer primary 120 VAC? None of the wiring looks like HV insulation so you may well be under 600 VDC

You may well have a voltage doubler supply.

Is there any marking on the round thing that looks like a torrid with orange leads held by screw nut on top. The board seems a bit too old to have a powdered iron or ceramic torrid.

I expect if you hacked into the little Selmax module you would find several diodes in series potted. Theory purports potting helps equalize temperature so fewer diodes are needed, I think just to hide what's in there.

Never had electro static speakers so might miss something.

My take on the caps is: use what's cheapest. Probably a ceramic disc. It's just a almost no draw power supply unless I am missing the boat.

On to voltage testing. The supply will be just as fussy about the input impedance of your test meter as the meter will be if the voltage is over 600 to 1KV = SMOKE!

If you have a DMM, even a modern cheapie, I expect the input impedance is around 10 meg. Make a string of 1 meg 5% or just measure a handful and select 10 that measure the same / closest with your DMM.. Hook them in series and hook your meter across the bottom - ground side one and you have a 1:10 voltage divider to protect your meter. You want the resistor value you hook across about 1/10 the input impedance of your meter. Not perfect but will give you a good indication of what you have. If the voltage is low enough move the higher probe up one or 2 resistors and the calc for the voltage.

Remember, you don't need to look for HV. Make a mistake and it will find you! The old saw of keeping one hand in your pocket when probing is still a good idea The supply appears to be low current and caps almost nothing so danger is not much, but HV always deserves / requires respect.
 
I redid the board before I saw some of the responses but, thankfully the 1/4 amp diodes seem to be having no trouble. I dropped the fuses down to 1/4 amp just to be safe. There is no transformer it's just wall voltage into a doubler. The original caps were only rated for 600 volts and in one of the speakers the original caps were only rated at 400 volts. The new caps are all much higher, the only part i wasn't sure about was the diodes. They sound very clear for vintage speakers and seem to have very good high end extension. Once I refinish the cabinets I'm going to hook them up and give them a good listen.


One side note, I use a Sony home theater receiver for bench testing and I've noticed that it seems to have a hard time with AlNiCo speakers. (you have turn up the volume a decent amount before they make any sound) Any thoughts on that?
 
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