BadassBob's tiny room extravaganza

BadassBob

Digitally rendered
Well, sort of anyway. I won't be starting on this room until after my mother moves into her new house. She recently took up residence with me when her home sold, so that gives me a months worth of planning and preparation. Due to the poor acoustics of my basement, I have decided to relocate my main system to my small spare bedroom in due time. This room measures a whole 8ft x 10ft with an 8ft ceiling as well as a carpeted floor. I realize this can be tricky, but I have faith that I can get it to work well enough for me. What I'm after is having a comfy listening environment, where I may be able to include a friend sitting with me every so often. Here's my intended layout, don't mind the crappy artwork :D

GY09QvDl.png


The location of the door may be troublesome, but I should be able to work with it. My intention is to run an electrical outlet into the closet, where my component rack and albums will be located. Floor real estate is at a premium here, so anything I can keep out of the listening area will be located in the closet. As far as room treatments, I plan on hanging a large heavy curtain on the wall with the window, and perusing bass traps in the corners behind the speakers. Another one I had planned on was using 2" pyramid foam on the door and wall to the rear of the listening position, as well as foam on the right and left walls to absorb any early reflections. What I'm looking at so far is placing the speakers 1ft from each side wall, and 8" or so from the rear wall. I realize it's a tight fit that may be fairly challenging, but there will have to be compromises made in order to have a little extra floor space. I feel as long as I have the room treated correctly, I should be able to mitigate some issues with placement. Now that my intentions are out of the way, what advice do you small room users have to give me? I'm all ears, and this would be my first truly dedicated listening space. Cramped quarters for sure, but I think I may be able to work with it :thmbsp:
 
I suggest moving the speakers out of the corners as much as possible.

I have a similar space - 8 x 12 - and I have the speakers about 4' from the front wall and about 2' from the side walls, with bass traps in the corners behind the speakers and one panel behind the listening position. I eventually want to add side panels as well. The listening chair is about 2' from the back wall.
 
What, moving out of the basement?? :D

I think the gear in the closet/alcove is a good idea and I don't think the door is as problematic as you are anticipating. Having the chair out in the room is good, too.

As a user of (much) pyramid foam myself, I'd almost recommend 2'x4' fiberglass panels instead. You have the advantage of flat walls and what looks to be minimal furniture. You should drop by here (over the weekend?) and hear what my room sounds like with 48 sq. ft. of 2" pyramids. If I had it to do over again, I might do it differently.

I also think moving the speakers out a bit would be better. I have some calculations (have to look them up later) that I used when placing my speakers in my small room and I have more or less zeroed in on a good spot.

And yes, bass traps in that small boxy room will be necessary. Again, I think there are better solutions than foam, but they are a quick and easy improvement over nothing for sure.

Carry on!
 
Bear in mind I need to have enough room to use the door at the rear without hitting the chair(s). I plan to have 2 chairs in the space, so I need ~3ft of clearance from the rear wall to the rear of the chairs. I plan on the listening position being about 5 to 6ft back, with the speakers placed ~6ft apart. I do know that rear ported speakers need breathing space from the rear wall, but I've read that placement should be 1.5x the diameter of the port(s) or greater. According to that formula, I should be OK with 8" to 12" from the rear wall once treatments are in place. My speakers have a pair of 1 3/8" ports. Wharfedale suggests 4" or greater from the rear wall with these particular speakers, that falls within the formula above. That said, I will most definitely experiment with placement once I get the ball rolling :yes:
 
What, moving out of the basement?? :D

I think the gear in the closet/alcove is a good idea and I don't think the door is as problematic as you are anticipating. Having the chair out in the room is good, too.

As a user of (much) pyramid foam myself, I'd almost recommend 2'x4' fiberglass panels instead. You have the advantage of flat walls and what looks to be minimal furniture. You should drop by here (over the weekend?) and hear what my room sounds like with 48 sq. ft. of 2" pyramids. If I had it to do over again, I might do it differently.

I also think moving the speakers out a bit would be better. I have some calculations (have to look them up later) that I used when placing my speakers in my small room and I have more or less zeroed in on a good spot.

And yes, bass traps in that small boxy room will be necessary. Again, I think there are better solutions than foam, but they are a quick and easy improvement over nothing for sure.

Carry on!

I will have to look into the fiberglass panels, they seem like they would do a very good job without taking up much real estate, and shouldn't cost too terribly much either. On the bass trap end, my plan was to use the ones from The Foam Factory and run them about 4ft high from the floor in the corners. Would I need a bass trap for the ceiling as well? Maybe something behind the speakers, or would the large curtain suffice? I will have to take you up on your offer, Don, but it will have to be another weekend within the next month. Too much going on this weekend getting my mother situated :( :smoke:
 
I just had another idea in relation to the DIY absorption panels mentioned by DC. A friend of mine does screen printing, I may ask him to come up with some design to do on the cloth, a design that starts at one and continues around to the last one. Should add an interesting touch :)
 
This room is very treatable. I would put corner bass traps in the two front corners and the one rear right-hand corner and then open the door for the forth trap. Remember a bass trap is there to eliminate, as much as possible, the reflection of the bass signal back into the room. With the door open, you do that.

As for first reflections, you can just go to HD or Lowes and buy the Roxul Safe & Sound and hang the bare panels on the first reflection point, including the ceiling, and see how it sounds. Without making them into official panels, you can do a lot of testing. Then when you really know what you need, you can put them in wood frames and cover them in cloth.

I know there are a lot of rules about where to place your speakers, but I have found that they are a good starting point. With the bass traps and panels in place, you can then play with the placement of the speakers and chair.

How far is your head from the back wall??? The back wall is the perfect place for a diffuser. It can make your small room sound much larger.
 
This room is very treatable. I would put corner bass traps in the two front corners and the one rear right-hand corner and then open the door for the forth trap. Remember a bass trap is there to eliminate, as much as possible, the reflection of the bass signal back into the room. With the door open, you do that.

As for first reflections, you can just go to HD or Lowes and buy the Roxul Safe & Sound and hang the bare panels on the first reflection point, including the ceiling, and see how it sounds. Without making them into official panels, you can do a lot of testing. Then when you really know what you need, you can put them in wood frames and cover them in cloth.

I know there are a lot of rules about where to place your speakers, but I have found that they are a good starting point. With the bass traps and panels in place, you can then play with the placement of the speakers and chair.

How far is your head from the back wall??? The back wall is the perfect place for a diffuser. It can make your small room sound much larger.

Thanks for the advice on the bass traps! My head will be about 3ft from the back wall.
 
3ft is about the closest you should be to a diffuser to work. The free program QRD (I think is the name) will give you the geometry for a diffuser for your room
 
How far is your head from the back wall??? The back wall is the perfect place for a diffuser. It can make your small room sound much larger.

Word. I need to pay more attention to this for my room, too.
 
Absorption panels on wheels:

FxCam_1408225141097_zpsd987849d.jpg

Those look very nice, but my room is far too small for them. I will peruse the advice by djnagle above and hang them from the wall. Conveniently enough, a friend of mine has the hardware and software to measure room acoustics and will assist me in my venture. I have already discussed with another friend screen printing a continuous design across all wall panels, should make for a nice (I hate the word) "artsy" appearance. I also plan to replace the ceiling light with a tracklighting system so I can add some nice lighting effects. I won't be starting on this for another one to two months, once my mom is out and settled into her new home.
 
3ft is about the closest you should be to a diffuser to work. The free program QRD (I think is the name) will give you the geometry for a diffuser for your room

Closest recommended distance is dependent upon the design of the diffuser and the lower in the spectral range is it diffuse the further away from the device you'll need to be seated. You'll find the majority of acoustic treatment device manufacturers recommend absorption on the rear wall if the listening position is within six, some say as much as eight, feet...simply because a reflection from a boundary layer at that close of a range to the listening position is technically an early reflection and treatment of early reflections with diffusion is discouraged. The proper location for diffusion at the rear of the room when the listening position is close to the rear wall is at the side walls at the very back of the room, flanking the listening position to the right and left.
 
I just had another idea in relation to the DIY absorption panels mentioned by DC. A friend of mine does screen printing, I may ask him to come up with some design to do on the cloth, a design that starts at one and continues around to the last one. Should add an interesting touch :)

Screen printing could eliminate the porosity of the covering material, thereby making it reflective of mid range and high frequency content...which totally negates the purpose of having absorption panels at first reflection locations. Maybe do a test piece first with the ink and pattern you have in mind and to test make sure you can blow through it easily when you hold it up to your mouth. If you can't it will be too reflective to use over an absorption panel at an early reflection location. On the panels located on the front wall behind speakers would be ok because you're not managing early reflections at that location.
 
GY09QvDl.png


The location of the door may be troublesome, but I should be able to work with it. My intention is to run an electrical outlet into the closet, where my component rack and albums will be located. Floor real estate is at a premium here, so anything I can keep out of the listening area will be located in the closet. As far as room treatments, I plan on hanging a large heavy curtain on the wall with the window, and perusing bass traps in the corners behind the speakers. Another one I had planned on was using 2" pyramid foam on the door and wall to the rear of the listening position, as well as foam on the right and left walls to absorb any early reflections. What I'm looking at so far is placing the speakers 1ft from each side wall, and 8" or so from the rear wall. I realize it's a tight fit that may be fairly challenging, but there will have to be compromises made in order to have a little extra floor space. I feel as long as I have the room treated correctly, I should be able to mitigate some issues with placement. Now that my intentions are out of the way, what advice do you small room users have to give me? I'm all ears, and this would be my first truly dedicated listening space. Cramped quarters for sure, but I think I may be able to work with it :thmbsp:



This is easy. One panel on each side wall at first reflection with the panels being 2' x 4' x 2" (OC 703) or 3" (Roxul SafeNSound) thick (2" might seem less intrusive into the room and actually performs just a bit better than 3" SafeNSound). Locate two more 2' x 4' panels on the rear wall except if you can go thicker here you would benefit as LF energy has a tendency to accumulate at the rear wall. 4" or thicker would be the target thickness for effective absorption of mid and upper bass content...which really benefits the reproduction from bottom to top in a number of ways. Place a pair of panels on the ceiling at first reflection and a pair on the front wall, constructed with a similar thickness to the panels on the rear wall, and stop there and see how things sound. Bass traps will certainly help, but to be effective they will get rather large and will be intrusive as it takes a big hammer to break up a big rock. I agree with the suggestion of locating bass traps in the front corners. There are a few different designs that represent effective methods to skin the cat, but I would avoid foam. It really does very little to nothing in terms of trapping first octave (60 Hz and lower) content.

And it looks as if first reflection on the left wall will reside at the closet doors. You could build a portable panel for that location. When experimenting with placement just set the panels on a chair that's up against the wall. This puts the panel at the perfect height in relation to where your head will be when you're in your seated listening position.

One concern I have with treating a room that size with that much absorption is that the removal of so much sonic energy from the room might seem too dead for your tastes....I've encountered some who like it and some who don't. If you find it a little flat you can return some sonic energy without removing the benefits of the panels by using binary slats or amplitude grating over a few of the panels. And it's not difficult to do.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=572781

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=446798

- Michael
 
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Bob, you might consider setting up diagonally. I did that when I was in a 12' x 13' room and it worked out very well sound-wise. Not sure if it would work for you in that room.

Here's a link to a thread I started a while ago, and in my first post you'll see a link to an article by Steve Deckert which is where I got the idea.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=398532
 
After some REW measuring, and talking with the GIK folks, my similar sized room ended up like this :

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=557960

A lot of examples and inspiration in the thread here about small listening spaces.

Awesome, thanks for the inspiration! :thmbsp: I know working with a small room can be a bear, but it's all I have for the foreseeable future. I plan on starting work on this within the next month or two. I can't wait to get started.
 
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