Yamaha RX-A1040 - Bi-Amp Question(s)

yzzaj

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Looking to see if anyone can answer my question(s). I've looked thru the manual, and haven't found the answer (although I could have missed it). I truly believe in "RTFM". I was a software controls engineer earlier in life, and have a decent understanding of controls and a basic understanding of electrical engineering.

Just got a brand new Yamaha RX-A1040 for Christmas. It replaces a Sony STR-DE935 that didn't have HDMI capability.

Also got a pair of Klipsch RB-61 II's, and a pair of Klipsch R-15M's with it. Since it's a small space, right now they seem to suffice.

I am using the Yamaha in my study/office (10'x12' room). Also have three turntables connected to it, along with a BluRay player, cable TV, and other equipment.

The Yamaha so far (a couple of weeks) is very nice - lots of nice features, good web access, etc. Power-wise, it's somewhat overkill given the small room size, but I just wanted all the inputs and features, and AVR's with those features also come with that type of power.

The Yamaha has a set of speaker terminals on the back that are labeled as [Extra Sp] and that are software selectable as:

Zone 2
Front Presence
Bi-Amp

Currently I have the RB-61 II's connected to the "Front" terminals, and the R-15M's connected to the "Extra Sp" terminals.

The "Extra SP" connection is software configurable to run as "Zone 2", "Front Presence", or "Bi-Amp". I'm not interested in running in the "Zone 2" mode, since it has a separate volume.

Question is:

When selecting "Bi-Amp", is the Yamaha sending the exact same signal to the "Extra Sp" terminals, as it is sending to the "Front" terminals?

Or is it sending a high frequency signal to one (Bi-Amp), and a low frequency signal to the other (Front) {or vice versa}.

I understand that I can connect both connections to the RB-61 II's, since they have Bi-amp connections. However, sometimes I like the Front Presence mode (separate speakers) for movies.

I have noticed (with my old ears) that when running in the Bi-amp mode, the RM-15's just seem to act like a "B" set of speakers.

So I guess that's my ultimate question - given my current connections: is the signal the same, and if so, then the "Extra Sp" connection running in Bi-amp configuration is really just like a "B" set of speakers?

Any issues or problems running like that?
 
I think it is just a full range signal like the fronts. I have never seen anything to indicate that it does any processing when in bi-amp mode. Also it would likely tell you to hook up one set to the tweeter and the other to the woofer if it did do some processing.

Just so I understand, you have only 4 speakers and no sub right? Sometimes you like to run 4 speakers for movies configured as main and front presence?
 
Same signal, but not really like "B" speakers because it is separate amp channels, not a parallel load like typical A+B switching.
 
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I think it is just a full range signal like the fronts. I have never seen anything to indicate that it does any processing when in bi-amp mode. Also it would likely tell you to hook up one set to the tweeter and the other to the woofer if it did do some processing.

Just so I understand, you have only 4 speakers and no sub right? Sometimes you like to run 4 speakers for movies configured as main and front presence?

Same signal, but not really like "B" speakers because it is separate amp channels, not a parallel load like typical A+B switching.

Thanks for the replies. I just re-read the manual and found on page 23 (Connecting front speakers that support bi-amp connections) in small print (don't know how I missed it before):

"The FRONT terminals and EXTRA SP terminals output the same signals".

To answer your question, I have the 2 pairs of Klipsch speakers, along with a Sony SA-WM200 active subwoofer, a Bose VCS-10 center channel speaker, a pair of old Bose Model 21 speakers for surrounds (early '90s vintage) and a pair of RS Minimus 7W's for rear surrounds. The 4 Klipsch's are new, the others are all 'old'. In the next few months, I'd like to replace/upgrade the 'old' speakers.

Movies - run the Klipsch 15s as Front Presence. Otherwise, I'd like to run them (sort of) as "B" speakers - I listen at only low or medium levels, so they just help fill out this room.

With the 15s configured as "Bi-amp", it does sound nice. I've found that setting up a manual adjustment of levels/distances/EQ/size/etc work better than the YPAO mic.
 
Gotchya, you run a 9.1 set up to watch movies, sometimes.
The Zone 2 function works great by the way. You could use it if you wanted to listen to just the R15Ms in 2 channel mode.
I have the zone 2 going to my bedroom. I use my phone to control the receiver which allows different input sources. I didn't really consider it when I was buying it, but now that I have them hooked up I am liking it.
 
Not sure if you have gotten around to this yet...

Run the YPAO setup to get all the distances and levels (and EQ and crossover for subs and...) correct for the surround modes.

Then try the "9 channel stereo" DSP setting for music listening. I have a similar RX-A2010 and 9 channel stereo is pretty much the default setting for music and movies.
 
Not sure if you have gotten around to this yet...

Run the YPAO setup to get all the distances and levels (and EQ and crossover for subs and...) correct for the surround modes.

Then try the "9 channel stereo" DSP setting for music listening. I have a similar RX-A2010 and 9 channel stereo is pretty much the default setting for music and movies.

Ran the YPAO setup with the mic on a tripod at my listening position(s) on the first day after connecting all the speakers. It worked well for the distances, except for the left surround, which it mis-calculated (probably because of the weird high location I had to put the speaker in).

I found that it sounded better if I adjusted the levels manually for my particular ears, and manually adjusted the crossover for the sub (since the sub also has a crossover pot). The manual adjustments really made a difference - given this particular room. I still have the YPAO settings saved.

Still playing with EQ's and DSP settings.

This is my first Yamaha, and my first new reciever in about 6 or 7 years. Lots of great features to learn and play with.

Still haven't figured out how to get the Zone 2 out HDMI to work correctly - I suspect the problem lies in my relatively old Vizio 42" TV that I am using. What I'd like to do is watch Cable TV (sports) on the Vizio (using Zone 2 HDMI), while listening to music (from various sources) on the speakers (effectively zone 1).

I have the Cable box connected to the second HDMI input on the Yamaha, and the Vizio connected to the first HDMI output on the Yamaha. I also have a second HDMI cable from the Zone 2 HDMI output on the Yamaha going to a second HDMI input on the Vizio. So - I need to figure out how to send the cable signal thru the Yamaha to the Zone 2 HDMI all the time, and select the second HDMI on the TV to watch sports. Then, listen to whatever I want on the speakers. If I want to see the Yamaha output for what I'm listening to, I can just switch the Vizio back to it's first HDMI input.

So far, I've tried a few things, and the Vizio tends to lose the HDMI picuture.

I could also do this with an HDMI splitter - split the signal coming out of the cable box - run 1 signal to the Yamaha and send the second to the Vizio second HDMI input. Seems to me this would accomplish it. If anyone has a good recommendation on a good quality HDMI 1-2 or 1-4 splitter....
 
Since the sub has a low pass adjustment on it, you should set that at the highest possible setting then rerun the calibration.

After I run Audyssey on my Marantz, I confirm that none of the levels are at the far end of the range, typ. -12dB or +12dB. I found the sub level was +12dB on the first/test run so I turned up the level on the sub and reran the calibration, ending up at +3dB trim level.

Then I also confirm the distances are correct and that the crossover points are what I want. On my setup, Audyssey sets the crossovers lower than I want on some channels so I manually configure them all to the THX-recommended 80Hz.
 
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Since the sub has a low pass adjustment on it, you should set that at the highest possible setting then rerun the calibration.

After I run Audyssey on my Marantz, I confirm that none of the levels are at the far end of the range, typ. -12dB or +12dB. I found the sub level was +12dB on the first/test run so I dialed back the level on the sub and reran the calibration, ending up at +3dB trim level.

Then I also confirm the distances are correct and that the crossover points are what I want. On my setup, Audyssey sets the crossovers lower than I want on some channels so I manually configure them all to the THX-recommended 80Hz.

I believe I noticed in the manual that it said to set the sub to the highest possible setting before running the cal, so I did that.

I also confirmed the distances (the left surround being the only one that was 'off').

This particular sub is small, so I ended up dialing up the level on it just a bit.

The biggest problem is since this is an office/study, I have desks with flippers/cabinets on top of them (4 desks, 3 cabs). I have no choice but to put speakers on top of the cabs. Definately not a "listening room", but more of a room that I can work on music/ripping, etc, and listening to records, other sources, and the occasional movie. Since I listen mostly at low levels (occasionally at medium), the sound is at least acceptable.

I have no sound treatments in the room(other than desks, albums, carpet, etc), so it is what it is. At least with a receiver like this, I can adjust things so it sounds the best it can sound, given everything (especially my old ears).
:thmbsp:
 
Still haven't figured out how to get the Zone 2 out HDMI to work correctly - I suspect the problem lies in my relatively old Vizio 42" TV that I am using. What I'd like to do is watch Cable TV (sports) on the Vizio (using Zone 2 HDMI), while listening to music (from various sources) on the speakers (effectively zone 1).

I have the Cable box connected to the second HDMI input on the Yamaha, and the Vizio connected to the first HDMI output on the Yamaha. I also have a second HDMI cable from the Zone 2 HDMI output on the Yamaha going to a second HDMI input on the Vizio. So - I need to figure out how to send the cable signal thru the Yamaha to the Zone 2 HDMI all the time, and select the second HDMI on the TV to watch sports. Then, listen to whatever I want on the speakers. If I want to see the Yamaha output for what I'm listening to, I can just switch the Vizio back to it's first HDMI input.

Digging through the manual (RX-A2010) you can assign a video output to the audio inputs...I think that is only a choice for the "audio only" inputs like CD.

Another option (?) is to run component cables from monitor out/zone out to the vizio. Then assign monitor/zone out to zone 2. Of course it is about the same as running two HDMI cables but it avoids any possible handshake issues that may be caused by running two HDMI cables to the same TV.

Hope that helps!
 
Yeah, looks like you need to go to setup for the inputs you're using then set them to the HDMI output where you want that input/source to go.

As a side note, somewhere in all that, thought I saw a statement that seemed to be saying if you're using multizone and switch sources it can disrupt the HDMI connection.
 
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