Son of Ampzilla - Keep or Return?

MCM_Fan

AK Subscriber
I've been lusting after a Son Of Ampzilla for quite some time and managed to snag one locally last Saturday. It was a consignment item at a local dealer. He had just gotten it in and hadn't even hooked it up yet. So, I bought it without auditioning it. Probably not the smartest thing, but he gave me 7 days to listen to it in my home in my system (probably the best listening test anyway).

The amp was from an older collector who was liquidating his entire collection. It was a bit dusty, but otherwise in good cosmetic condition. Given the volume of gear from this collector the dealer was unpacking, I doubt if this amp has seen much use over it's ~35 year lifetime. After dusting it off, I'm satisfied with the physical appearance. Actually, I'm more than satisfied with the way it looks. It looks awesome in my rack with my Magnum Dynalab FT-101A tuner (love me some analog meters).

But, after a brief listening test, it's obvious it needs servicing. Nothing major, but when the volume is turned all the way down, there is noticeable noise in both channels, slightly more in the right than the left. It's not horrible, but it's loud enough to hear from the listening position and this is for my bedroom system where I'm used to silence coming from the speakers when there is nothing playing. I'm using it with the preamp section of my NAD 3150 integrated amp. When I use the NAD's internal amp, or a TPA3116 Class D amp I built, there is no sound emitting from the speakers when the volume is turned down, or when nothing is playing. The Son sounds good when playing music. So, I'm hopeful a recap will silence the noise I am hearing.

I suspect the meters also need re-calibrated and I'd like to get the bias checked. Is it OK if I mention what I paid for it here, or is that only allowed in Dollars and Sense? I thought about posting there, but what I'm really interested in is how much effort is involved in servicing this amp myself, or about how much it would cost to have it professionally serviced. I don't think I drastically overpaid, but since it was on consignment, the dealer would not budge on the price.

I believe I have the required skills to perform a recap on this amp, and with a little help from the guys in the lab at work, I could probably also re-calibrate the meters and even check and adjust the bias if necessary. Still, I did not buy this amp to have yet another DIY project on my table. I have several speaker recap and refoams in my queue, a set of speaker stands and system rack in planning and would probably not get to this amp until after the first of next year. Since the shop I bought it from has a service department and the amp clearly needs service, would it be appropriate to offer to pay for the parts if they will supply the labor to recap the amp, calibrate the meters and check/adjust the bias. I suppose it can't hurt to ask.

To be truthful, I am perfectly happy with the sound using the NAD 3150, but REALLY love the look of the Son of Ampzilla. I have no doubt the Son, will sound at least as good as the NAD after servicing, but it's not like I NEED the extra power in my bedroom system. More than anything, I was seduced by those big, beautiful meters. I have no problem admitting that. Of course, how it sounds is critical and the highest priority, but I also get a lot of enjoyment out of how my system looks. It's one of the first things I see when I wake up every morning. I'd love to hear how good this thing would sound after servicing, but I'm not sure if that's a wise investment of time/money.

So, what do you think? Should it stay, or should it go.
 
It's like chocolate.. addictive. I just bought an Empire gold troubador TT extra cartridge mounts for future purchases. Acquired some nice 'history of classical music' album sets.. literally unplayed or very few times.

I like ho car sets, too. wish I had room for one.

No hobby is inexpensive but can be profitable. (sometimes) :smoke:
 
I've been lusting after a Son Of Ampzilla for quite some time and managed to snag one locally last Saturday. It was a consignment item at a local dealer. He had just gotten it in and hadn't even hooked it up yet. So, I bought it without auditioning it. Probably not the smartest thing, but he gave me 7 days to listen to it in my home in my system (probably the best listening test anyway).

The amp was from an older collector who was liquidating his entire collection. It was a bit dusty, but otherwise in good cosmetic condition. Given the volume of gear from this collector the dealer was unpacking, I doubt if this amp has seen much use over it's ~35 year lifetime. After dusting it off, I'm satisfied with the physical appearance. Actually, I'm more than satisfied with the way it looks. It looks awesome in my rack with my Magnum Dynalab FT-101A tuner (love me some analog meters).

But, after a brief listening test, it's obvious it needs servicing. Nothing major, but when the volume is turned all the way down, there is noticeable noise in both channels, slightly more in the right than the left. It's not horrible, but it's loud enough to hear from the listening position and this is for my bedroom system where I'm used to silence coming from the speakers when there is nothing playing. I'm using it with the preamp section of my NAD 3150 integrated amp. When I use the NAD's internal amp, or a TPA3116 Class D amp I built, there is no sound emitting from the speakers when the volume is turned down, or when nothing is playing. The Son sounds good when playing music. So, I'm hopeful a recap will silence the noise I am hearing.

I suspect the meters also need re-calibrated and I'd like to get the bias checked. Is it OK if I mention what I paid for it here, or is that only allowed in Dollars and Sense? I thought about posting there, but what I'm really interested in is how much effort is involved in servicing this amp myself, or about how much it would cost to have it professionally serviced. I don't think I drastically overpaid, but since it was on consignment, the dealer would not budge on the price.

I believe I have the required skills to perform a recap on this amp, and with a little help from the guys in the lab at work, I could probably also re-calibrate the meters and even check and adjust the bias if necessary. Still, I did not buy this amp to have yet another DIY project on my table. I have several speaker recap and refoams in my queue, a set of speaker stands and system rack in planning and would probably not get to this amp until after the first of next year. Since the shop I bought it from has a service department and the amp clearly needs service, would it be appropriate to offer to pay for the parts if they will supply the labor to recap the amp, calibrate the meters and check/adjust the bias. I suppose it can't hurt to ask.

To be truthful, I am perfectly happy with the sound using the NAD 3150, but REALLY love the look of the Son of Ampzilla. I have no doubt the Son, will sound at least as good as the NAD after servicing, but it's not like I NEED the extra power in my bedroom system. More than anything, I was seduced by those big, beautiful meters. I have no problem admitting that. Of course, how it sounds is critical and the highest priority, but I also get a lot of enjoyment out of how my system looks. It's one of the first things I see when I wake up every morning. I'd love to hear how good this thing would sound after servicing, but I'm not sure if that's a wise investment of time/money.

So, what do you think? Should it stay, or should it go.

I think you have no idea what this amp potentially sounds like. I have several of them from non-functional through yours to great to fully rebuilt. I can tell you yours needs restoration. If you're not going 'wow' at listening to this amp, then it's shot. This is a superb amp and would be among the best you'll ever hear. That noise is an indication of more than just caps. A rebuildable one is worth maybe 200 tops in great cosmetic condition. Probably around 350 to rebuild.
 
Asking a shop to eat the labor cost on a consignment item is a non-starter. Plus, the parts are likely to cost less than the labor. I think you're looking at an amp that could possibly end power amp acquisition spending for quite some time-I think if you can't afford to rebuild it you should let it go to someone that can/will or return it to the store and ask for the right of first refusal if they decide to re-build it.
 
So how much did you pay for it? Yes, thats ok to mention here.

If you really love it, I'd say get it fixed.
 
I paid $250 for it. I purchased it at Investment Audio in Beaverton, OR. That seems to be on the high end for one that needs servicing/restoration. I'd describe the cosmetic condition as 9/10. There are the usual fin scratches on the plastic meter covers, but they are only visible when the meters are off and could easily be buffed out.

If I do decide to keep it, I'd like some recommendations on where to get it serviced. Is there anywhere in the Portland area you'd recommend for the servicing. Investment Audio has a service technician, but I have no experience with their service department. I also know of Investment Audio and Inner Sounds and Fred's Sound of Music on Hawthorne also sells used gear and has a service department. Can anyone here recommend any of these place, or any other place in the Portland area for servicing/restoring this amp.

Or, would I be better off shipping it to someplace that specializes in GAS repairs? If so, where?
 
I can tell you yours needs restoration... That noise is an indication of more than just caps. A rebuildable one is worth maybe 200 tops in great cosmetic condition. Probably around 350 to rebuild.

Other than a recap, checking and adjusting the bias and calibrating the meters, what is involved in a restoration/rebuild required to get this amp performing up to its true capabilities? Replacing the output transistors? What else? Is there anyone you recommend specifically for restoring/rebuilding this amp?
 
Does it make noise with nothing plugged into it speakers only?

Yes, it does. Here's the exact symptoms of the noise.

With nothing but the power cord plugged in, there is a humming coming from the chassis. I haven't opened it up, but it seems to be coming from the front, center where the huge transformer is located. This is the least noisy configuration, but the noise can still be heard from anywhere in the room. I hope this isn't a transformer going bad. Could it be a grounding issue? I am powering the entire system, including the amp, through a Panamax M5300-EX power conditioner (although I also noticed this hum when plugging the amp directly into the wall outlet).

With power plugged in and speakers connected (no inputs connected), the hum coming from the chassis is still present and additionally there is VERY noticeable noise coming from both speakers. I'd describe this noise as a combination of hiss (easily audible from anywhere in the room) and hum (I have to get closer to the speakers to hear this). This is easily the most noisy configuration.

Plugging something into the inputs has no affect on the chassis hum, but decreases the noise coming from the speakers considerably. It's still present, but greatly attenuated and can only be heard if I get within about 3 feet of the speakers due to being overwhelmed by the hum coming from the chassis. Once I'm more than 3 feet from the system, the hum totally swamps any noise coming from the speakers and can be heard from anywhere in the room. So, from the listening position the noise in this configuration is basically the same as the first configuration.
 
Try searching the Solid State forum in Diyaudio.com. there are a few threads on this one even a current one.
It's a fairly complex old guy and some of the parts are NLA,
so substitutions are fitted. But that takes knowledge
Ask in there?
Sometimes old transformers have loosened their mounting screws?
 
Transformers can buzz. The mounts, cover or plates are a source of mechanical noise.

If it is from this, take it back is what I'd due.



Barney
 
It is normal for there to be a little hiss and hum coming from an amp with nothing connected to the input. It should be low enough that you need to put your ear right on the tweeter to hear it. What kind of speakers do you have? Try plugging shorting plugs into the input jacks. Then it should be silent.
 
Sometimes old transformers have loosened their mounting screws?

Transformers can buzz. The mounts, cover or plates are a source of mechanical noise.

If it is from this, take it back is what I'd due.

I'm not 100% sure it's transformer noise, but it sure sounds like that's where the audible hum is coming from. I haven't actually opened it up. I don't want the dealer to think I've tampered with anything if I try to return it.

I'll take it back to the dealer today and see what he says. If this is a simple matter of tightening the screws, he should be able to open it up and fix that in a couple minutes. If not, can these transformers be re-built or would it need replacement. If so, is a replacement even available? From the guts photos I've seen online, that's one big transformer.
 
The hiss problem is not likely caused by bad caps, it's bad transistors in the differential pair in the front end of the amp. This is common. You have to buy 20 or 30 replacement transistors and match them for HFE so you are installing matched pairs. If you short the inputs of the amp and you still hear hum and hiss from your listening position, the hiss is the transistors and the hum is power supply caps. If you only hear hiss and the hum only happens when you connect the preamp, it's either the cable between the preamp and power amp or you have a ground loop. Put a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter on the power cord of the preamp to lift the ground. Only one connection to power line ground is necessary. The hum coming from the chassis is from the power transformer. Sometimes the screws that hold the transformer together get loose, sometimes it's the internal laminations that are loose (shellac dries up) and nothing can be done.
 
It is normal for there to be a little hiss and hum coming from an amp with nothing connected to the input. It should be low enough that you need to put your ear right on the tweeter to hear it. What kind of speakers do you have? Try plugging shorting plugs into the input jacks. Then it should be silent.

I use a pair of the Pioneer Andrew Jones SP-BS22-LR speakers that I've modified with new Vifa tweeters and a crossover designed by Dennis Murphy. That's an entirely different thread, but the speakers are new and don't have any issues.

I just double checked the noise, with my ear an inch from the tweeter, with both the Son of Ampzilla and a little TPA3116 Class D amp I built. Yes, both have clearly audible noise with no inputs connected. Which, as you say is to be expected and not a concern to me. With inputs connected, here's what I observe:

New Class D amp - very little audible hiss, no hum. My ear needs to be within an inch of the tweeter to hear the hiss.

Son of Ampzilla (ignoring the hum coming from the chassis, for now) - About twice as much hiss as the little class D amp. Can only be heard with my ear 3" - 4" from the tweeter. However, there is a louder audible hum coming from the 4" woofer. It's much louder than the hiss, but still not nearly as loud as the hum coming from the chassis and was not present wit the new class D amp. It can easily be heard with my ear 2' - 3' from the speaker. Beyond that distance, it's drowned out by the hum coming from the chassis.

Also, when first powering up, there is a loud "thoing" (best way I can describe it) that comes from inside the chassis (again it sounds like it's coming from the transformer). This noise lasts about a second and fades to the constant chassis hum I mentioned previously. During this power-on "thoing" the meter needles jump up to about 3.2 watts and then return to near zero as the noise fades to the constant hum.

At this point, the noise coming from the speakers is far less concern to me than the chassis hum. The noise through the speakers isn't nearly as noticeable or as offensive as the hum coming directly from the amp.
 
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