Seeking help with low volume issues on Vintage Pioneer turntable

tomcatmixd · Nov 21, 2014

I have a Pioneer PL-A3 turntable with a Shure Premier Cartridge. The stylus was replaced when I purchased the unit about six months ago.

My problem is that the unit delivers volume levels that are about 40-50% lower than my other sources (CD, TIDAL streaming via Mac, cassette, tuner).

Is this a common situation or is there a problem? I have a feeling the issue is related to the cartridge but, again, I'm not sure.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions...

beatcomber · Nov 21, 2014

Are you using a dedicated phono input on your amp, or do you have an external phono preamp?

It's not unusual for a cartridge to have lower output than CDs, etc.

Ken Boyd · Nov 21, 2014

Quick question, does that Onkyo have a jack on the back that says phono, or are you plugged into the AUX?

Common output voltages on a MM cartridge is about .5 mv where as a CD player commonly has about 2 volt output, that is why you need something to boast the amplification of a phono cartridge. Older preamps, and receivers had a built in phono amp, and you will be able to distinguish this by seeing a RCA input labeled phono. If your amp doesn't have one, a stand alone phone amp will be needed.

boreas · Nov 21, 2014

beatcomber said:
It's not unusual for a cartridge to have lower output than CDs, etc.

Very true but, for the OP's sake, it should be mentioned that the difference is more like 4 or 5% - okay, maybe 10% - rather than the 40 or 50% he reports. If the difference is truly that great, I'd have to think there was a problem somewhere.

John

tomcatmixd · Nov 21, 2014

beatcomber said:
Are you using a dedicated phono input on your amp, or do you have an external phono preamp?

Using the dedicated MM phono input on the amp, no phono pre.

Ken Boyd said:
Quick question, does that Onkyo have a jack on the back that says phono, or are you plugged into the AUX?

Connected to the phono-in + ground. (far left inputs of the Onkyo model pictured)

boreas · Nov 21, 2014

First check to see whether the stylus is fully inserted in the cartridge. If it is, connect the turntable to the STA-78 and see what happens.

John

larryderouin · Nov 21, 2014

John; there are 4 different versions of the PREMIERE cartridge defined by Color
Beige = uses N70B Type Stylus
Light Green= uses N70EJ Type Stylus
Yellow = N95ed type
Black = N75ed type

It's possible the OP has the wrong stylus for his cartridge. It should tell you on the top of the cartridge which color.

It does make a difference. My Premiere Yellow had a beige type in it and caused it to be very weak in output.

Larry

boreas · Nov 21, 2014

larryderouin said:
John; there are 4 different versions of the PREMIERE cartridge defined by Color
Beige = uses N70B Type Stylus
Light Green= uses N70EJ Type Stylus
Yellow = N95ed type
Black = N75ed type

It's possible the OP has the wrong stylus for his cartridge. It should tell you on the top of the cartridge which color.

It does make a difference. My Premiere Yellow had a beige type in it and caused it to be very weak in output.

Larry

Aha! Good one, Larry! Perhaps the OP can give us a closeup of the cartridge.

John

Metalownz · Nov 22, 2014

Looks like the PL-A35 table? Could be a low output cartridge too.

boreas · Nov 22, 2014

Metalownz said:
Looks like the PL-A35 table? Could be a low output cartridge too.

Balifly said:
One of those old Pioneer lomc cartridge? :scratch2:

According to the OP, it's a Shure Premier. Looking at the photo, the stylus appears to be either an N70 type or an N75 type. The color of the stylus appears to be either white or light gray (but I suppose it could be beige). That could mean that it's an N75HE T2 stuck in either a Premier Black, a Premier Beige or a Premier Green body. Hopefully, the OP will enlighten us.

John

mythless · Nov 22, 2014

Which manufacturer made the stylus? I can't see the picture, hence why I am asking.

Could it be a Juke Box stylus and requires greater tracking force? I remember having a beige coloured stylus before and it has really bad and low output.

boreas · Nov 22, 2014

mythless said:
Which manufacturer made the stylus? I can't see the picture, hence why I am asking.

Could it be a Juke Box stylus and requires greater tracking force? I remember having a beige coloured stylus before and it has really bad and low output.

That would confirm what Larry said but, to me, the stylus doesn't look beige in the photo above.

John

4-2-7 · Nov 22, 2014

Do you have the old cartridge or stylus to try out?

Do you have Line Level adjustments on your reciever?

4-2-7 · Nov 22, 2014

boreas said:
That would confirm what Larry said but, to me, the stylus doesn't look beige in the photo above.

John

It looks white to me.

mythless · Nov 22, 2014

I forgot to mention, it was a new stylus but a really bad quality one.

skriefal · Nov 22, 2014

Sounds like normal behavior. You usually will need to crank the volume when listening to LPs relative to CDs, radio, etc. Not only do phono stages have lower output than other modern devices, but LPs will often have better dynamics (and thus a lower overall volume level) than CDs, MP3s, radio. Turn up the volume knob and enjoy.

boreas · Nov 22, 2014

skriefal said:
Sounds like normal behavior. You usually will need to crank the volume when listening to LPs relative to CDs, radio, etc. Not only do phono stages have lower output than other modern devices, but LPs will often have better dynamics (and thus a lower overall volume level) than CDs, MP3s, radio. Turn up the volume knob and enjoy.

Not 40 or 50% as the OP said.

John

skriefal · Nov 22, 2014

It certainly can be. Depends on the calibration of the volume knob, the relative volume levels of the LP and the CD/MP3s being used for comparison, the output of the cartridge, the gain of the phono stage, what the OP really means by "40% lower" (dB level? position of knob?), etc. I've seen that much difference in some systems in the past -- even when everything was working correctly.

tomcatmixd · Nov 23, 2014

larryderouin said:
John; there are 4 different versions of the PREMIERE cartridge defined by Color
Beige = uses N70B Type Stylus
Light Green= uses N70EJ Type Stylus
Yellow = N95ed type
Black = N75ed type

It's possible the OP has the wrong stylus for his cartridge. It should tell you on the top of the cartridge which color. It does make a difference.

boreas said:
Aha! Good one, Larry! Perhaps the OP can give us a closeup of the cartridge.

Here you go, guys. Black cartridge. How do I know if I'm using the correct (N75ed type) stylus? Should it also be black? Am I incorrectly using the N70B?

jimreeves · Nov 23, 2014

Wrong stylus, and not fully inserted. Looks more like a M95 cart body to me. These guys will direct you to the correct stylus. Should be similar to this:
http://www.turntableneedles.com/N95...artridge--our-Needle-767-DED-copy_p_1400.html
or this:
http://www.turntableneedles.com/N95he-Type-Stylus-for-Shure-M95he--our-Needle-767-DHE_p_1401.html

Seeking help with low volume issues on Vintage Pioneer turntable

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