estreeter
Super Member
I can only go on what I've read about the Concero, but it would seem that you got a very good DAC - isnt that the important thing ? :thmbsp:
The Schiit stack. Tomorrow's legend or forgotten pile of Schiit?
- Thread starter barfod
- Start date
I can only go on what I've read about the Concero, but it would seem that you got a very good DAC - isnt that the important thing ? :thmbsp:
Billfort
Addicted Member
Yes, I'm very happy with the Concero HD - one of the best 'new' equipment purchases I've ever made.
I'd really like to try a Schiit DSD dac someday - especially if they cover the DSD128 'unicorn' - their view that DSD is a completely different animal that warrants it's own dedicated dac makes a lot of sense to me. This 'unicorn' may be a "niche within and niche within a niche" but along with the right software, it allows ALL my digital content to sound the best it ever has.
I'd really like to try a Schiit DSD dac someday - especially if they cover the DSD128 'unicorn' - their view that DSD is a completely different animal that warrants it's own dedicated dac makes a lot of sense to me. This 'unicorn' may be a "niche within and niche within a niche" but along with the right software, it allows ALL my digital content to sound the best it ever has.
ZenWaveAudio
New Member
I've heard DSD sound fantastic in it's native format via an Auralic Vega, and I currently own the Sony HAP-Z1ES, which converts everything to DSD that is not originally DSD. The conversion can be turned on or off. Most people find it works great with redbook, and I agree. Redbook is 95% of what I listen to so having a DAC that does it well was top priority, it just happened to involve DSD. Others are finding improvements through JRiver's DSD conversions.
The small percentage of my music that is in native DSD sounds amazing through the Sony.
Before the Sony I had a Bifrost... got it when it first came out and upgraded to Uber and Gen2 USB waiting for a high end DAC from Schiit that never showed up.
Their current products are good, but only for the price. On a relative scale they are budget digital sources and that's what they sound like compared to a DAC like the Auralic Vega and the Sony HAP.
The small percentage of my music that is in native DSD sounds amazing through the Sony.
Before the Sony I had a Bifrost... got it when it first came out and upgraded to Uber and Gen2 USB waiting for a high end DAC from Schiit that never showed up.
Their current products are good, but only for the price. On a relative scale they are budget digital sources and that's what they sound like compared to a DAC like the Auralic Vega and the Sony HAP.
Okay, I just had another system change change. I have switched out the Yamaha A-550 integrated amp for a separates combo, an NAD C162 preamp and a Rotel RB-951 amp. So I increased from a 40w/ch integrated amp to a 50w/ch amplifier. I must say, the Rotel amp and the NAD preamp make the Monitor Audio Bronze BX2's shine! I get more impressed by these little gems with each system change and addition.
Of particular note, I have a Schiit Audio Modi DAC to bypass the LG DVD player's audio section... with the Yamaha A-550 there was a subtle but audible improvement in delicate music, jazz, and acoustic instrumental music but not so much with in-your-face rock music. There is a bigger audible improvement in the sound when using the Schiit Modi DAC compared to the LG DVD's RCA output, with the NAD/ Rotel separates than was audible with the Yamaha A-550 integrated amp. All three Yamaha's (CR-420--> R-700--> A-550) sounded good. Each change improved the overall sound a bit. Adding the Schiit Modi improved the system a bit more, but this last change really panned out. I think I might have a new crush... Rotel & Schiit Audio to go along with my Monitor Audio and Thiel crush.
What to do next? I am considering a slightly higher line DAC, a Schiit Audio Bitfrost with uber analog. Any thoughts?
Of particular note, I have a Schiit Audio Modi DAC to bypass the LG DVD player's audio section... with the Yamaha A-550 there was a subtle but audible improvement in delicate music, jazz, and acoustic instrumental music but not so much with in-your-face rock music. There is a bigger audible improvement in the sound when using the Schiit Modi DAC compared to the LG DVD's RCA output, with the NAD/ Rotel separates than was audible with the Yamaha A-550 integrated amp. All three Yamaha's (CR-420--> R-700--> A-550) sounded good. Each change improved the overall sound a bit. Adding the Schiit Modi improved the system a bit more, but this last change really panned out. I think I might have a new crush... Rotel & Schiit Audio to go along with my Monitor Audio and Thiel crush.
What to do next? I am considering a slightly higher line DAC, a Schiit Audio Bitfrost with uber analog. Any thoughts?
estreeter
Super Member
Hold out for Yggdrasil - that specs sheet has a lot of people very excited.
pete_mac
Super Member
It's a lot more expensive than the Bifrost though...
cubdog
banging through drywall
That's too bad but thanks for the warning. They need to know that good customer service could make or break them. I refuse to do business, whenever possible, with companies that don't provide good CS. I don't want to find out after it's too late and I already need their help.
cubdog
DeeCee
"Music is what we like to play..."
That's weird... when I was considering them for a new DAC, I emailed them prior to sale with a question and they responded within a couple of days.
Hope this isn't a change in their behavior (hopefully they are just busy and will catch up on their emails when they can).
Hope this isn't a change in their behavior (hopefully they are just busy and will catch up on their emails when they can).
cubdog
banging through drywall
That may be the problem, but, the bigger problem is that if you have so much business that you can't respond to your customers and prospective customers in a timely fashion you may not survive as a business. I don't understand why businesses have a hard time understanding this.
cubdog
racca
Active Member
If you're curious, you can find the founders' thoughts on CS, design, etc. in the "Schiit Happened" thread over on Head-Fi.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up
I'd recommend only reading Mike's comments. The rest of the thread suffers from being a fanboy echo chamber.
"We bend over backwards for our customers. But we won’t be bent forwards." —Jason Stoddard
DeeCee
"Music is what we like to play..."
Easier said than done... trying to find people (especially if you are relatively small) that has the same work ethic (not to mention having the payroll to support these quality people) is never easy.
That being said, they DO have to consider that there are competitors at their price points that may perform just as well (if not better).
There are good companies EVERYWHERE (hooray for competition!)
I ALWAYS have an alternate selection in case my initial selection falls through.
You're the proof that one screwup to a customer will permeate their sales space!
Good luck and let us know what you end up with!
Happy Listening!
DeeCee
estreeter
Super Member
Good luck dealing with Justin Wilson from Headamp if you ever choose to go with one of his products. He basically uses a thread on Head-Fi to update customers re the status of back orders, despite his obvious disdain for HF in his posts at head-case.org, and his attitude to random queries is 'why should I waste time that I can spend filling back orders ?'. For all that, the man is a perfectionist and his Stax amp is THE amp to own for those with the cash - and the patience - to be able to afford it.
estreeter
Super Member
Jason has just restated his/Schiit's stance on DSD in the head-fi thread - quoted here with neither comment nor emphasis. Not sure where he gets his numbers from, but time will tell if he's right.
Correct. There is no way Yggy can support DSD, except in the way that 90% of the popular delta-sigma DACs do: by converting it to PCM. And we're not going to add that code to the system. It already has its hands full, serving the 99.999% of the music already out there in PCM format.
Fact: our DAC sales keep increasing--and accelerating--despite no support for DSD.
Fact: the promised "flood" of DSD is less than a trickle. It is less than 0.001% of the total market.
Fact: quad- and octo-rate DSD (if there is even any content available, besides a couple of demo tracks) means 3 albums per terabyte (exaggerating a little bit here, but you get the point.)
Fact: much DSD content has suspicious provenance, having passed through PCM conversion at some (or many) points.
Fact: most DSD you hear is converted to PCM or another intermediate multibit delta-sigma format before you hear it, except on a handful of chipsets.
Fact: no non-standard audio format has ever succeeded. How are your HDCDs doing these days? That used to be a literal "must have" in any new DAC. Mike fought that one, too. Everyone told him he was crazy. Guess what? He was right.
Fact: inquiries about "do you support DSD" to our customer service team have fallen off a cliff (literally 95% lower this year than 2013)
Adding this up...we will not be doing any further development on DSD unless it reaches more than 1% of the total market. I'm pretty confident at this point that we won't be doing any more DSD work.
But...let's say...we wake up in an alternate universe tomorrow where Sony has released 8,000 completely pure DSD-from-the-start albums for $9.99 each, and Apple starts streaming DSD from the iTunes store for $14.95/month. (Yeah, I know, stop laughing.) Let's just say. Guess what? Our DACs, from Bifrost on up, are fully upgradable. So, we add DSD capability--real DSD, not converted-to-some-intermediate-format DSD, with DSD-appropriate filtering, and you can upgrade all our DACs to do it, rather than buying a new one.
We may seem like a silly company at times, but make no mistake: we are dead-serious about great sound—and about delivering value that nobody else can match. As our ad in the RMAF show guide says: "The end of the world is only the beginning."
Correct. There is no way Yggy can support DSD, except in the way that 90% of the popular delta-sigma DACs do: by converting it to PCM. And we're not going to add that code to the system. It already has its hands full, serving the 99.999% of the music already out there in PCM format.
Fact: our DAC sales keep increasing--and accelerating--despite no support for DSD.
Fact: the promised "flood" of DSD is less than a trickle. It is less than 0.001% of the total market.
Fact: quad- and octo-rate DSD (if there is even any content available, besides a couple of demo tracks) means 3 albums per terabyte (exaggerating a little bit here, but you get the point.)
Fact: much DSD content has suspicious provenance, having passed through PCM conversion at some (or many) points.
Fact: most DSD you hear is converted to PCM or another intermediate multibit delta-sigma format before you hear it, except on a handful of chipsets.
Fact: no non-standard audio format has ever succeeded. How are your HDCDs doing these days? That used to be a literal "must have" in any new DAC. Mike fought that one, too. Everyone told him he was crazy. Guess what? He was right.
Fact: inquiries about "do you support DSD" to our customer service team have fallen off a cliff (literally 95% lower this year than 2013)
Adding this up...we will not be doing any further development on DSD unless it reaches more than 1% of the total market. I'm pretty confident at this point that we won't be doing any more DSD work.
But...let's say...we wake up in an alternate universe tomorrow where Sony has released 8,000 completely pure DSD-from-the-start albums for $9.99 each, and Apple starts streaming DSD from the iTunes store for $14.95/month. (Yeah, I know, stop laughing.) Let's just say. Guess what? Our DACs, from Bifrost on up, are fully upgradable. So, we add DSD capability--real DSD, not converted-to-some-intermediate-format DSD, with DSD-appropriate filtering, and you can upgrade all our DACs to do it, rather than buying a new one.
We may seem like a silly company at times, but make no mistake: we are dead-serious about great sound—and about delivering value that nobody else can match. As our ad in the RMAF show guide says: "The end of the world is only the beginning."
Billfort
Addicted Member
Ahhh, so my suspicions were correct.
This does make me feel good about my decision to steer clear of schiit - especially when I hear daily in my system how good this format can sound. Whether the original source was analog, DSD or PCM, stored as DSD files or PCM via wav or flac, converting it to DSD128 on-the-fly via HQPlayer and sending it to a DSD128 capable dac sounds fantastic. After years of looking and listening, I've found a great way of enjoying all my digital and it's through a DSD dac; if/when I upgrade that dac, schiit won't be on my list.
Ok, so generally I am happy with the results of the Modi test. I could leave it in my stereo hooked to the LG DVD player and be quite happy, particularly since adding the Rotel amp and the NAD preamp, or even more bang for the buck hooked up to the video receiver as the AirPort Express/ AirPlay DAC.
I would say the Modi is worth every penny of the $99 spent. Now I think I will try the Bitfrost with Uber analog. It might take a few weeks to amass the funds (a few months if I'm honest) but I will try to get back once I order it.
Does anyone else out there have experience with upgrading from the Modi to the Bitfrost? Is there a noticeable or a subtle difference between the two?
I would say the Modi is worth every penny of the $99 spent. Now I think I will try the Bitfrost with Uber analog. It might take a few weeks to amass the funds (a few months if I'm honest) but I will try to get back once I order it.
Does anyone else out there have experience with upgrading from the Modi to the Bitfrost? Is there a noticeable or a subtle difference between the two?
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