fisher 500c alternative combos?

Hey I have a 500c that I love, although I find myself trouble shooting a lot of issues lately lol. Since I 1st got into tube audio I always wanted either a nice set of mono blocks or stereo amp that was simple with exposed tubes. My issue is I love the way the 500c sounds I'm almost afraid to try other stuff out. Does that make sense? My friend has gone through a few amps so far that in my honest opinion the fisher sounds way better then.

Is anyone running any combos or intergrated's that are in the same price range and offer both a level of user upgradability/restoration and still shares a similar sound as the 500c? Maybe seems like a silly question. :scratch2:

I was thinking maybe a set of 30a's and a 400c must sound similar and great either way but that more then doubles the budget.

I don't run separates so I'm limited in the answer I can give you. You could transistion to an 800C which is basically a 500C with an added AM band section. Other than that they are pretty much identical. And you might like the 400. Even tho it uses 7868 tubes it's pretty gutsy, and sounds almost the same as the 500/800C.
And the added benefit it's fairly simple to work on compared to the 500/800C.

You ever buy a used car where you didn't have it being worked on more than a new one?? expect to have problems on any piece of gear as old as these.

Well, for receivers, you're at the top of the tube heap.
For separates, be prepared to invest some money.
They're better, but the question you'll have to answer, and only you can answer, is are they better enough to justify what you'll go through to get to better. Are they better enough? Figure $10X expense for SIGNIFICANTLY better.

Begin endless loop.

Well, for receivers, you're at the top of the tube heap.

hornertuber said:

Hey I have a 500c that I love, although I find myself trouble shooting a lot of issues lately lol. Since I 1st got into tube audio I always wanted either a nice set of mono blocks or stereo amp that was simple with exposed tubes. My issue is I love the way the 500c sounds I'm almost afraid to try other stuff out. Does that make sense? My friend has gone through a few amps so far that in my honest opinion the fisher sounds way better then.

Is anyone running any combos or intergrated's that are in the same price range and offer both a level of user upgradability/restoration and still shares a similar sound as the 500c? Maybe seems like a silly question. :scratch2:

I was thinking maybe a set of 30a's and a 400c must sound similar and great either way but that more then doubles the budget.

Click to expand...

Do you like a more tubey sound? More romantic, etc.? Get a 500B or an 800B. More of that 50's Fisher sound for basically the same money as a regular 400. Many people love the more modern sound of the "C" series or the 400.

I am a sucker for the older Fisher sound and the only way to get that in an inexpensive Fisher receiver that's the usual $500.00 is in a 1962-63 model. As AudioKarma member sgmlaw said:

The B series receivers retain the midrange magic of the earlier models from the '50s. The greater extension and frequency balance of the later C series tends to recess the middle slightly by comparison and emphasize that strength in the Bs even more. While the Bs had greater production variances, and some can sound flat or ho-hum compared to the typical C, a B that is somehow spot on can have an almost scary in the room presence, particularly with vocals. In that respect, it is unmatched in my experience. I place very high value in midrange performance and tonal presence, which is why in my opinion, the B is potentially the best of the 7591a family receivers, even better than the 400. But comparatively few exist, unfortunately.

As for separates, forget it. A lot more money and if you're talking McIntosh or Marantz, a LOT more money.

If you want a change and a more magic midrange (where the magic of music is), get an 800B or a 500B..

Over & out!

The Law of Diminishing Returns really sets in hard once you start to move beyond (forward) from the 500-C

It is the only Fisher I have ever owned, but not the only Fisher I have heard

I have also owned, and do own, other tube amps, including a couple of "exotics", which the Fisher experience enabled me to easily shit can, albeit at a significant financial loss

But the new found joy of being (re)reminded of what these machines were built to do in the first place, and do well during those glorious years, makes it painless

All wisdom comes with costs attached

The Fisher and some other "ancient ones" have brought me near to the end of my search, back full circle to where the music was all along

I'm not screwing around with any more "modern" tube equipment, only those from the "Golden Age"; what a relief to put all the marketing driven insecurities to rest

That's the nice thing about actually doing this stuff hands on, you quickly learn to distinguish the shit from Shinola

Using a multitude of sources and software, if the 500-C makes you happy then quit and be very happy in the fact that you found it and have it

My 500-C certainly made my life a whole lot easier and helped me off load several sonic lost causes (except for the perpetual purveyors of the upgrade machine)

I could not be any happier and wish for much more in a daily player other than if this one had been an 800-C; would have been nice (I listen to AM frequently)

Enjoy your receiver and help stamp out audio neurosis and anxiety

Thomas

Thanks for the insight guys . I absolutely LOVE the way the my 500c sounds. Actually I am always borrowing peoples speakers or picking up cheap ones to resell just so I can listen to them on the fisher lol. The main attraction I had to tubes from the very beginning was how gorgeous separates looked, so minimal, all business, those beautiful tubes just right out in the open to enjoy. After I heard a 500b and read the countless positive reviews though I picked up a 500c. Always thought I would evolve towards that original dream at some point though. I'm in no hurry, maybe when I have a house and the space for a 2nd system. Just wanted to know what you guys thought.

Maybe in the mean time I'll try some of these kits and a basic pre just to fool around.

I've been switching between my 500c, a Fisher 400, a Decware Torii MKIII, and Heathkit UA-1 mono blocks lately. As much as I want the Decware to outshine everything because that's where the most money was sunk, the 500C is knocking everything I play out of the park. Maybe it's that it's got more power than everything else, though I don't think that's it. When I put a pair of NOS RCA 5751 tubes in the tone positions it sounded good, but when I put the good ol' Fisher 12AX7's back in the receiver literally came back alive. I don't think I have ever heard such sparkle, and bass growl, as I hear with the C. The Torii gives me fantastic tonality, and more than enough bass, but it's just not the same. There is a quickness and a thump with the C that I cannot explain other than to say that I find myself looking up at the speakers(Klipsch Fortes) more often when it's in the system than I do when it's not. I am into the music and I look forward to playing more music all the time. No other piece that I have currently gives me that. There's a Harman Kardon Citation II on sale that's been totally restored that has peaked my interest but it's $3K+ and I'm having great difficulty thinking that in my little world that it could meet, or beat, what I'm getting from the C at this time. Considering that the C cost me $700 fully restored that's a decision that's not that hard to make. And this thread has made it even easier. Just thought I'd pass along some thoughts on this Friday night.

Are those Fisher 12AX7's Teles or what?

Yes, they are Steve. So much better. That being said I'm gonna try some GE triple mica's in the tone position soon cause what I've heard on this site so we'll see.

I'm pretty sure that will be a waste of time and money but knock yourself out!

Never heard a GE that could top a Tele.

And I'm sure you're right, but I ordered them when I was going through my 5751 phase thinking that a bit less gain would be good. Only after ordering and they were shipped did I put the Tele's back in and discovered my error. Oh well. I'll give 'em a try and worse comes to worse sock 'em away for another venture another day. The Tele's have knocked me out though. Picking up a quad of them tomorrow from a local seller as spares. Fisher's no less.

Clean&Tight said:

The Law of Diminishing Returns really sets in hard once you start to move beyond (forward) from the 500-C

It is the only Fisher I have ever owned, but not the only Fisher I have heard

I have also owned, and do own, other tube amps, including a couple of "exotics", which the Fisher experience enabled me to easily shit can, albeit at a significant financial loss

But the new found joy of being (re)reminded of what these machines were built to do in the first place, and do well during those glorious years, makes it painless

All wisdom comes with costs attached

The Fisher and some other "ancient ones" have brought me near to the end of my search, back full circle to where the music was all along

I'm not screwing around with any more "modern" tube equipment, only those from the "Golden Age"; what a relief to put all the marketing driven insecurities to rest

That's the nice thing about actually doing this stuff hands on, you quickly learn to distinguish the shit from Shinola

Using a multitude of sources and software, if the 500-C makes you happy then quit and be very happy in the fact that you found it and have it

My 500-C certainly made my life a whole lot easier and helped me off load several sonic lost causes (except for the perpetual purveyors of the upgrade machine)

I could not be any happier and wish for much more in a daily player other than if this one had been an 800-C; would have been nice (I listen to AM frequently)

Enjoy your receiver and help stamp out audio neurosis and anxiety

Thomas

Click to expand...

:thmbsp:

Whether the GE triple mica black plate 5751s will float your boat depends on your taste. Black plate only. Gray plate 2 or 3 mica 5751s are just average.
Black plate? They're a sleeper of a tube.
The RCA double-mica black plate? Meh! Even I'll take the teles.

I also really like the Sylvania long black plate 12AX7s, but I consider the Sylvania triple-mica 5751s overpriced and weirdly holographic in a way I don't find natural, but fun to listen to.

I use the GEs to bring the 500-C back from being slightly romantic and sparkly (with the Tele's) to being linear while being absolutely unfatiguing, even if on all day.

Your mileage may vary.

Sometimes what's immediately apparent is not what provides long-term satisfaction.
You'll have to decide for yourself.

The only thing that hinders the choice is if you put the case on the unit.

The good news is that trying different ones is entirely non-invasive to the unit.

Well of course it was your endorsement of the GE's that got me interested in an alternative to the Teles in the first place. When I first put the 500C back in the mix after a long period of hibernation frankly I was shocked at how great it sounded. Just a great big powerful sound with the biggest soundstage of all of my amps. Now maybe it's because of my getting the Fortes back in, or maybe it's because I had pulled a lot of its tubes out to swap with my 400 and then put them back perhaps not exactly the same as was instructed when I first got it. Maybe the moon was at a different angle or my ears are cleaner. Who knows? What I do know is it sounds like I had always was told it was going to sound but for some reason I don't recall it doing so previously. So because of the recommendations by you and several others regarding the positive results of using the 5751 and since I had the RCA lying around figured I would try it. Meh is right. The power was gone. So I ordered the GE's(yes blacks). Then I swapped the 400 back in hoping that I would get a similar revelation. It didn't work. Sounded really nice but without the grab me by the balls effect of the 500. So out it went, back in went the 500 with the Teles in the tone positIons and all was right again. Got online and found a very local seller(and a reputable one at that) selling a quad of Fisher branded Tele 12's at a very competitive price that I will get today. Don't believe you can have too much of a good thing and this really felt like karma. But the GE's will be here next week and I will give them an extended tryout since they weren't cheap. I hope, of course for the best. I'm also guessing Steve may be right. And if so I will put them away for another day when my mood is different and maybe things will be different. Or maybe not. The bigger question is what am I going to do with all these other amps now?

Use them, of course!

By the way, the GE 5751s will suck the life out of a Fisher 400. I don't know why.

So since the OP asked about 500C alternatives, I'm curious regarding the differences between prime Macintosh gear and the 500C. Specifically, MC30 mono blocks, MC240, MC60, MC275. I've heard many say how while they think the 500C is great, it's really no comparison between it and the Mac's. I would love to hear what are the specific differences/improvements one would get by spending the additional bucks for Mac. Also, would this also include a completely restored Harman Kardon Citation II, which I have also heard is a legendary piece?

Good point. An alternative, if you want the same family sound, would be a powerful Fisher integrated, like a KX-200, X-202-B or X-1000, of course!

If you're looking for a new production piece, we're talking about something entirely different in price point for equivalent performance.

audiodon said:

Good point. An alternative, if you want the same family sound, would be a powerful Fisher integrated, like a KX-200, X-202-B or X-1000, of course!

If you're looking for a new production piece, we're talking about something entirely different in price point for equivalent performance.

Click to expand...

Like what?

I don't know enough about new production gear to give an answer, but Leben comes to mind.

I love the sound of my Fisher 680-A console amp driven by a Hafler 915 preamp. The 680 uses 7591 output tubes and 12ax7s. Also have a 400 receiver which sounds nice but the phono section can't compete with the Hafler.

I recapped the 680 so expect should get a few problem free years from it. One of these days I would like to try a modern tube preamp.