sx-1250 power amp SMOKED help

get each data sheet for each transistor, THIS is it's lead layout. Things are NOT as neat as a direct plug in. By the time you learn this you will recognize which are, and which AREN'T.

Use the symbol silk screened onto the board.

These are your two guideposts.

every Mouser transistor has a data sheet available for download.... download them and look them up. then install as per the symbol printed on the pc board at that location.
never ever use the original transistor to determine how the replacement will go in.

from an earlier post:



First you need to learn about what the three transistor leads are about, and identifying which is which and where it goes according to the symbol. Then you will see that my parts list include lead arrangements - which assume the transistor lettering (and flat) are facing you and the leads are facing down, then go left to right.

Q13 2sc938 150v 0.05a 0.6w
512-KSC2383YTA to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.17


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The big TO-220's with the metal mounting plate are hard to reverse, but the smaller ones are, but my specified replacements are usually E C B as a rule of thumb BUT we ALWAYS CHECK...

But you really should start here and follow ALL the links...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=331932&page=5

here's a preview, DO YOU SEE these symbols on the boards you are working on?:


80px-BJT_PNP_symbol.svg.png


80px-BJT_NPN_symbol.svg.png


e is always the arrow on one angled line (direction can be out (npn) or in (pnp) towards the base)
b is always the flat line the other two lines come out if at an angle
c is always the angled line without the arrow

letters can be smudged or illegible, while the symbols are hard to mistake and pretty language independent
pioneer doesn't use letters, if there is a symbol. sometimes in a linear hole arrangement, there is only an 'e'.... with no room for a symbol.



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now a quick lesson on installing a small transistor in a traditional triangular hole arrangement with a symbol printed in the center of the triangle

1. find the LEFTmost lead on the package and identify it's designation (emitter? base? collector?)
2. look at the symbol on the board, find the corresponding hole
3. insert that lead into that hole
4. find the RIGHTmost lead on the package and identify it's designation (emitter? base? collector?)
5. look at the symbol on the board, find the corresponding hole
6. insert that lead into that hole
7. the center lead will now need to bent forward or back to go into the leftover hole.

DON'T THINK "WHERE IS THE FLAT FACING"
think
"outside leads" and THEIR holes...

this one's ecb....
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and two transistor layouts, ebc and ecb with the same triangular target hole arrangement
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well, you do need to get the parts, first.... :D

and when ordering the transistors, mouser has links to the transistor's data sheets, DOWNLOAD the data sheets!!! THEY are your BEST guide as to the correct lead connections for THAT particular transistor.

Do you understand the transistor symbol? enough to identify the emitter, base and collector from it? Because most boards (Pioneer) have the symbol printed on it, with holes around it, and it is orientated so there is an emitter hole, a base hole and a collector hole. And obviously, only the transistor's emitter goes into the emitter hole, the base into the base's hole and the collector into the collector's hole. IF you want it to work... :D

oh, and by the way, the symbol usually DOESN'T have the E, C and B letters ON on it... :stupid:
there are two flavors,
pnp: arrow pointing in, 2sa,2sb, ksa, ksb part number prefixes
npn: arrow pointing out, 2sc,2sd,ksc,ksd part number prefixes

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hint: if "rotating" it in your mind is a puzzler, orient it in the hole this way(transistor hole arrangements are usually triangular):

choose the leftmost lead, use the data sheet to identify it... for example it is the emitter
put it in the emitter hole

choose the rightmost lead, use the data sheet to identify it... for example it is the base
find the base hole, rotate the transistor line of leads around the inserted leftmost lead to point at the base hole
put the rightmost (base) lead in the base hole.

the THIRD hole is now either in front of or behind the transistor, in this example the collector is "left over"
bend the center lead forward or back to go into the hole.

easy...

notice that this example had the lead order of emitter, collector, base which is a common lead arrangement

that means that:

looking at the transistor, with the leads pointing DOWN, and the flat part (or lettering in the case of some zetex transistors) FACING YOU
going from left to right has the lead order of emitter, collector, base


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NEXT, you will follow MY directions EXPLICITLY (although slowly, things went to hell in a hand basket around here in my absence / illness ) AND DO NO MORE THAN I SAY.

IF SO, I'll get you through this.

ASK QUESTIONS about ANYTHING that is unclear. Questions are NOT stupid, they are learning. Part of learning is acknowledging what you don't know and correcting that. Quite frankly - the only stupid thing is bulling blindly ahead through clouds of smoke trusting "to luck".

What you ARE doing is probably DESTROYING good parts, and will probably need to get a new set of transistors... we will see, and so will YOU...
You could even test some of these transistors, and they look good, yet they were damaged and stressed and are ticking time bombs waiting to bite you.
Best to start out with a new deck of cards. Cheap insurance. minor penance.

WE will start with the power supply, get it working again correctly.
THEN the protection board
we'll get the unit working as a pre-amp
THEN tackle the power amps.
 
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On the power board
pin#1 : -46.1v
pin#2 : +46.1

On the protection board
pin#12 : +46.1
pin#13 : -46.2

Sorry for editing this twice. I performed this test as Zebulon stated in post #76
I tried this with and without the 100w dim bulb test and the results were within a volt.

Zebulon1 test procedure from post #76 below.
Amp boards completely disconnected.

You can install the protection board and connect the molex plug with the thick violet wires that go to pins 10 and 11 ONLY.

Install the stabilizer board and connect the molex plug with the thick red wires to pins 4 and 5 ONLY. This section (circuit) you are connecting to, is a seperate part of the stabilizer board and not part of what you had done (worked on) on the board.
NOTE: When installing the boards, it's easy to pinch the wires comming from the bottom of the set, between the mounts and chassis.

Set pluged in to the dim bulb tester (100 watt) and turned on:
DMM set to DC volts
Black probe to chassis ground.
Read pins 1 and 2 on the stabilizer board.
Read pins 12 and 13 on the protection board.
You should be getting real close to +-60 volts or so. Record what you get on each pin and report. Some pins (2 pins, one on each board) will read a negative volt. The DBT will draw the voltage down, (The spec with full house current is +-70 volts).
Before you attempt this check:
Look at the full schematic (Page 42) and follow what I explained so you can start to see the picture.
 

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As for installing the transistors, I did reference each data sheet on mousers website. Did I make a mistake? Most likely however I did check and will triple check before flipping the switch again!
 
Good pictures. I will look them over tonight. If I see something I will notify.
The voltages look good as well.

Mark is going to help you get your set back up and running. There's no point in me getting in the way as you garnered one of, - if not the best electronic tech's interest!
 
Quick power supply board pictures inspection: electrolytic caps replaced, most if not all transistors and diodes original? Correct?

awr.106 pin 1 -62v raw dc speaker power out
awr.106 pin 2 +62v raw dc speaker power out
awr.106 pin 3 0v ground
awr.106 pin 4 should be no reading AC power input
awr.106 pin 5 should be no reading AC power input
awr.106 pin 6 +85v raw dc in
awr.106 pin 7 +23v raw dc in
awr.106 pin 8 +5.4v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 9 +13.5v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 10 +25v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 11 +65v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 12 -75v ground
awr.106 pin 13 -65v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 14 -25v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 15 -87.5v raw dc in
awr.106 pin 16 -92.2v -65v regulated dc out test pin
awr.106 pin 17 +65v regulated dc out


Please edit YOUR voltages found at the named pins, this serves as both a check and a record.
 
awr-106a

C1-C19 have been replaced
Q2,Q3,Q,4,Q6,Q7,Q8,Q10,Q11,Q13, Have been replaced
Q1,Q5,Q9,Q12 Were replaced but I reinstalled the old ones after the issue. The part number I used on theses was 863-MJE15032G. I believe they were wrong.

I'm afraid to plug both boards in because thats when the bulb went really bright and the amp started making noise. I don't want to destroy anything more than I already did. I want to make absolutely sure everything is good before the next try. Should I just start over and replace the whole list on the power supply AWR-106A?
 
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I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding post #86. Are these the readings we are looking for doing the test with only pins 1 and 2 on the power board and pins 12 and 13 on the protection board plugged in?
 
1. awh-048 left amp board NOT plugged in.
2. awh-048 right amp board NOT plugged in.
3. awm-091 protection board NOT plugged in.

this will test and energize the awr-107 ps board which does NOT unplug
and
4. awr-106 power supply board is to BE plugged in.

This is to be a power supply baseline test, with only incidental chassis loads.

re: awr-106 q1, q5, q9, q11 ( am assuming you typo'd this and you meant q12)

awr-106 q1 2sd313 +65v series pass regulator, NPN 863-MJE15032G
awr-106 q5 2sb507 -65v series pass regulator, PNP 863-MJE15033G
awr-106 q9 2sd325 +13.5v series pass regulator, NPN 863-MJE15032G
awr-106 q12 2sd325 +5.4v series pass regulator, NPN 863-MJE15032G


863-MJE15033G pnp to-220 bce 250v 8a 50w 30mhz 70hfe
863-MJE15032G npn to-220 bce 250v 8a 50w 30mhz 70hfe

If you used all 863-MJE15032G, then Q5 was wrong and that would have probably hurt q6, q7 and maybe q8.

when editing in your readings, the best place is right after "awr.106 pin 1" and before " -62v raw dc speaker power out"
like:
awr.106 pin 1 -61.6v -62v raw dc speaker power out
 
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O.k. that being said, can I use the 863-MJE15032G'S For q1,q9 and q12? Also before installing them I'd like to test each one and make sure they are still ok.I'd also like to find the old Q5 for testing purposes and install it. I'm sure I've asked this before but what is the best way to test and identify the transistors values and their locations? Thank you again Mark.
 
O.k. that being said, can I use the 863-MJE15032G'S For q1,q9 and q12?
yes, I said it already...
awr-106 q1 2sd313 +65v series pass regulator, NPN 863-MJE15032G
awr-106 q5 2sb507 -65v series pass regulator, PNP 863-MJE15033G
awr-106 q9 2sd325 +13.5v series pass regulator, NPN 863-MJE15032G
awr-106 q12 2sd325 +5.4v series pass regulator, NPN 863-MJE15032G
You can "take that to the bank"....

I'm sure I've asked this before but what is the best way to test and identify the transistors values and their locations?
That's three things ( identify, functional test, track down old locations)

identification numbers on the transistors will allow their intended characteristics to be looked up

between the identification numbers and the characteristics they reference, the FORMER locations can be somewhat guessed.

gross testing of a transistor, for obvious faults, but no guarantee of functioning correctly:
Bipolar Junction Transistor Testing Basics
has a 6 way diode test, and post 11 has a specific step by step procedure with typical results.

The old q5 was a 2sb507, as I have previously posted above.
 
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I read the links you had for transistors in post 81 going to wikipedia, very informative. One bit of information I picked up on is why mica's are needed. I copied this from text there and have a question.

"The metal tab is often connected electrically to the internal circuitry. This does not normally pose a problem when using isolated heatsinks, but an electrically-insulating pad or sheet may be required to electrically isolate the component from the heatsink if the heatsink is electrically conductive, grounded or otherwise non-isolated. Many materials may be used to electrically isolate the TO-220 package, some of which have the added benefit of high thermal conductivity."

My question is, I used a thermal compound called arctic silver. Is this ok for this application? I'm going to make sure the mica's I installed are done correctly and didn't short out the board.
 
Thank you and I'm sorry for asking the same questions. I'm very interested in how all this works and am reading your suggestions and studying the manual In hopes I can wrap my brain around it all! :yes:
 
I read the links you had for transistors in post 81 going to wikipedia, very informative. One bit of information I picked up on is why mica's are needed. I copied this from text there and have a question.

"The metal tab is often connected electrically to the internal circuitry. This does not normally pose a problem when using isolated heatsinks, but an electrically-insulating pad or sheet may be required to electrically isolate the component from the heatsink if the heatsink is electrically conductive, grounded or otherwise non-isolated. Many materials may be used to electrically isolate the TO-220 package, some of which have the added benefit of high thermal conductivity."

My question is, I used a thermal compound called arctic silver. Is this ok for this application? I'm going to make sure the mica's I installed are done correctly and didn't short out the board.
STOP...Do not Pass GO!!!!!!!

You not rebuilding a Super Computer....Use Standard thermal compound.
 
Quick power supply board pictures inspection: electrolytic caps replaced, most if not all transistors and diodes original? Correct?

awr.106 pin 1 -70v -62v raw dc speaker power out
awr.106 pin 2 +70v +62v raw dc speaker power out
awr.106 pin 3 0v 0v ground
awr.106 pin 4 1.4mv should be no reading AC power input
awr.106 pin 5 -1.4mv should be no reading AC power input
awr.106 pin 6 +88.3v +85v raw dc in
awr.106 pin 7 +24v +23v raw dc in
awr.106 pin 8 +0.800v +5.4v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 9 +2.6v +13.5v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 10 +25v +25v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 11 +67v +65v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 12 0mv -75v ground
awr.106 pin 13 -2.8v -65v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 14 +0.415v -25v regulated dc out
awr.106 pin 15 -88.5v -87.5v raw dc in
awr.106 pin 16 +67v -92.2v -65v regulated dc out test pin
awr.106 pin 17 -2.8v +65v regulated dc out


Please edit YOUR voltages found at the named pins, this serves as both a check and a record.
...
 
Mouser part number for the heatsink compound is 567-126-2. Wakefield is the manufacturer, it comes in a 2 oz jar. That is the right type of stuff you must use to prevent more damage. Follow mtf's instructions then wait!
 
ARCTIC SILVER IS ELECTRICALLY CONDUCTIVE, the OPPOSITE of what you need.

It is used where thermal transfer is needed and there is NO need for electrical isolation. Like for CPU cooling in a computer.

DO NOT POWER THINGS UP WITH ANY OF THIS STUFF IN THE CHASSIS!!!

we have had guys use it with mica insulators, and while it didn't conduct initially, it turned into a damn near perfect short. Smoke and flames level short. :yikes:
 
Well that explains things. So now I'm going to remove all the Arctic silver and start over. Any suggestions on my readings? Does it look like there could be a short caused by the arctic silver?
 
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