Some Empire Turntable History

Wow, that's a gorgeous table, well bought! Can you hear a difference between the Herbie Mat and the original?

In terms of sound quality, not really. I had to change the original platter mat because it was a mess even after cleaning and my vinyls would get dirty. However, I do believe that it helps dampen the motor noise and I also had less rumble issues with the Herbie Mat. Do I recommend it from my usage? Yes. It's pricey, but cheaper and higher quality than other mats.

Now I have to solve the issue of grounding on my turntable. I get some random hums/buzz sounds that drive me crazy!!!! I think it my be some tonearm wiring issue? I don't know. Hopefully someone knows about the issue and can help... HELP!!! :sigh:
 
My hum/buzz was in the old original interconnect. When I replaced my cables (see above), all the noise disappeared.

What do you mean by this? Does the female eby connector need to be replaced or does the male eby connector that is directly connect to the tonearm have to be re-soldered?
 
Great info, seventy1. Could you give me a suggestion for cables to use? There are a bunch here:

http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/wirewin.htm

But it's kind of a wide variety. I'm guessing one needn't spend a fortune on expensive cables for this project. Just something with low capacitance?

Also, what exactly did you use for the grounding wire? That is, what gauge?

Thanks.
 
I just went for low compliance, low cost. Petra cable was all the rage a few years ago but I hear it's hard to find now. The current recommendation is Gepco VDM 250, it's supposed to be more flexible than the Petra, do an AK search for more info on the cable. I just used 22 gauge hook up wire for the ground cable.

I'm convinced that the right setup is to use a flexible, thin cardas tonearm type wire to go from the 5-pin to plinth mounted RCAs. This will isolate the suspension and tonearm from the interconnects. Even though my new cable sounds great, I've noticed that bumps to the cabinet are now transmitted to the table more than with the old cable. But even the original cable would have this issue to some degree - you pull on the cable, you pull on the suspension.
 
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What do you mean by this? Does the female eby connector need to be replaced or does the male eby connector that is directly connect to the tonearm have to be re-soldered?
Maybe yours is opposite, but on the 598, the connector on the cable side is male and the tonearm connector is female. My noise was in the cable itself.
 
I just went for low compliance, low cost. Petra cable was all the rage a few years ago but I hear it's hard to find now. The current recommendation is Gepco VDM 250, it's supposed to be more flexible than the Petra, do an AK search for more info on the cable. I just used 22 gauge hook up wire for the ground cable.

I'm convinced that the right setup is to use a flexible, thin cardas tonearm type wire to go from the 5-pin to plinth mounted RCAs. This will isolate the suspension and tonearm from the interconnects. Even though my new cable sounds great, I've noticed that bumps to the cabinet are now transmitted to the table more than with the old cable. But even the original cable would have this issue to some degree - you pull on the cable, you pull on the suspension.

What about something like what this guy did?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;image=15578

It appears that he zip-tied the cable to the chassis. Does that hole exist on that bracket?
 
That would prevent pulling on the connector, but the cable is still attached to the suspended portion of the table. Whatever noise source the cable touches can be directly transmitted into the tonearm and platter.
 
So I found the root cause for the excess hum and buzz sounds. It was my Nagaoka Cartridge. It seems that that my cartridge does not like the metal headshell of the 980 tonearm... I guess some ground loop is happening. any suggestions?
 
can you put a plastic spacer in between the cart & shell, so there is no contact?

also may need to use plastic screws
 
can you put a plastic spacer in between the cart & shell, so there is no contact?

also may need to use plastic screws

I ended up buying a aftermarket cartridge head. It was very well made and the grounding issue definitely disappeared. Now, I have to save up for a MC cartridge
 
Hello people, I just got a mint Empire 398 for $340... Yea, it's not like those deals people say they found theirs for 30 bucks. Here are some pictures. I took off the old platter mat and ordered myself a new Herbie Mat. I wanted to preserve the 880p cartridge (which was still working) so I got a Nagaoka MP 110. It's hard to find a low compliance moving magnet cartridge. I'm trying to pay my brother through college so money is always tight when I want to spend things I want to spend on. Hopefully, I can soon upgrade to a tube amp (Cary) and away from my serviceable Marantz PM6003 and then later invest on a moving coil cartridge. I will post a youtube video later on this week!! I'd have to say, classical, jazz, and my special pink floyd is beautiful!!

Very nice !! enjoy :thmbsp:
 
If the cartridge (metal) mounting screws are too long they will contact the 980/990 arm's metal headshell. With some cartridges, this can result in a ground loop.
 
Hello again Lads,
until I get to the glass installation of a dust cover, here is some quick information on that infamous hinge.

The hinge is three parts, hinge itself is just a rectangle of steel held to the plinth's backboard by a screw that threads to an insert in the backboard, and a steel spring washer. please note, the threaded insert is roll pinned to the wood to prevent it from moving along with the hinge, This pin also goes through the screw, to keep it from backing out during use.
To remove the screw, you will have to punch out the pin.
If you try to unscrew it without removing the pin, you will either snap off the screw, or so mangle the screw head to make it unusable
Of course you will have to repair the hole in your wood, and install a new pin. I did this, but used a solid pin so I could easily remove it in the future
Empire used roll pins in many places on the 598/698 I think it was to keep the user out of self repair.

It is my belief that, the failure point is the spring washer. It is a 3/4" diameter washer that is curved from the center on two opposing sides.
The pressure of the spring acting against the hinge and the steel insert in the board is what holds the dustcover in place. After 40 plus years, the spring washer just looses it's set, and can no long hold the weight of the cover.

I was lucky to find 4 of these sized washers in a neighborhood hardware store, and replaced the springs on two tables, a 598 and a 698 both have glass tops and fronts.

This worked quite well, and held the cover in place at a 90degree angle, plus a bit more in a forward position.

I found a few sources for them on the net, and I will order some in different thicknesses to find a match for the original

If you try this yourself, use care in removing the screw, as it looks like they used a thread locker along with the roll pin. if iit does not move under normal strength, stop and soak it with penetrating oil and wait a day or so.
Clean up the surfaces with a light abrasive and reassemble in the order it came apart.
DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THE SCREW on assembly.

By the way, the screw in this photo came from a Empire tale with a broken hinge I got from an estate sale it is much shorter, due to the fact the the rest of the screw is still inside the inset.
The previous owner tried to remove it with out removing the pin, and snapped the head of the scre off at the pin pont.

Hope this helps.

Donald Bowman

I have a broken screw on one of my hinges and was wondering if anyone here has some advice on how to get the pin out so that the broken screw can be removed?

Or am I needing to make a new hinge board...?
 
I'm convinced that the right setup is to use a flexible, thin cardas tonearm type wire to go from the 5-pin to plinth mounted RCAs. This will isolate the suspension and tonearm from the interconnects. Even though my new cable sounds great, I've noticed that bumps to the cabinet are now transmitted to the table more than with the old cable. But even the original cable would have this issue to some degree - you pull on the cable, you pull on the suspension.
IMG_7783a_zps249538a5.jpg

Well, I finally got around to adding flexible wires between the tonearm and interconnects. The above solid core coax interconnects were just too stiff to attach to the suspended portion of the table. I used KAB SuperFlex Tonearm Wire to go between the 5-pin connector and RCAs. I couldn't bring myself to drill holes through the original plinth, so I made a bracket out of aluminum angle to screw to the inboard side of the back panel.
IMG_7776a_zps3e482c34.jpg


The bracket is out of sight and the cables exit under the plinth just like OEM.
IMG_7799a_zps6e49650d.jpg

IMG_7804a_zps28d8e8ec.jpg


While I was in there I took the cage off of the motor and oiled the top bearing fiber washer. I dribbled oil down a toothpick into the gap between the fiber and armature.
IMG_7784a_zps1fade06c.jpg


I really wanted to get to the motor's bottom thrust plate to lubricate and adjust end play, but I couldn't get the glued-in end cap off. May need to try some solvents next time. Has anyone else done this? After oiling, the motor was completely silent in my hand except for fan whir. Once back in the new isolators on the table, it was noisy, but less than before.

I also polished the platter bearing and flipped the thrust washer. Here's a photo of the old "divot" indicating this Empire was a well used companion.
IMG_7792a_zpsd893ad71.jpg
 
Can you provide a little more detail on how you removed the thrust washer without damaging it and how to re-install? Thanks.
 
seventy that is fantastic, thx for posting details

I just pulled my 598 & 698 apart to flip the thrust plate, sprayed brake kleen into the bearing wells & then relubed with triflow

a snapring puller ( plier type tool for getting C clips off ) does wonders. after struggling with the 598 & a pair of wire cutters I finally gave in & went out to buy a pair. best $20 i ever spent it took 2 seconds to get the 698 clip out! vs 30mins of frustration :D

problem is I think the triflow is too thin for a bearing lube...it is leaking out the bottom of the well. I may have to clean them both out again & try mobile1 synthetic...or 3-1 sewing machine oil


what is everyone else using as lube? maybe I'll start a new thread
 
. . . & try mobile1 synthetic...or 3-1 sewing machine oil . . . .

3 N 1 contains paraffin. It will thicken with use. Sewing machine oil is good. But I think the Mobil 1 is the best bet.

The thing about Mobil 1 is you pay $6 for a quart and use 5 drops.
 
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