ADC's Bricks
- Thread starter wualta
- Start date
Balifly
Listening
What is the approximate compliance?
What type of arm do you recommend for it (very light......medium light.....medium)? :scratch2:
I don't have specs for that, but using the Scientific Finger test, I'd guess about 30 cu. Even though it's a basic Brick, I'd still put it in the lightest arm you have, simply because Bricks are, well, bricky. Damping would of course be good too.
I'd love to know whether the arm Pritchard designed was damped.
I'd love to know whether the arm Pritchard designed was damped.
Carlp
New Member
Interesting thread. Can anyone recommend a stylus for a 550e? Or one(s) to stay away from? Several suppliers sell styli from $35-40, and ebay has sellers offering them as low as $14 shipped. I don't know much about this cartridge, so looking for input. Note I'm reluctant to spend much on this as I have no idea if I will like it. Also, seems like virtually none that I have seen have the same gray coloring of my model.
TIA,
Carlp
TIA,
Carlp
A toughie. I understand your reluctance to spend much on a non-TOTL cartridge from 1967. The stylus you want is the R-5E (and it's gray, not red, not blue), but you're most likely to find styli for the 220 or maybe the 220E. You may have to chance the aftermarket on this one. Good luck!
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Cool! This was an era when the TOTL models had the highest inductance rather than the lowest. The 25, 26 and 27 were the highest, then there was the 10E Mk IV, which was lower than the 25 but still had nearly twice the inductance of your common beige Brick, which used the 104-DE styli.
You can get away with the inductance mismatch and go ahead and use a 104, but the one you really want, if you really want to see the 10E4 do its big trick, is the 107-DEX, and strangely, some NOS 107-DEXes have been showing up in Pfanstiehl-type packages for mostly-reasonable prices. ADC called it the R-15E.
There's only one problem: some repackagers (like Pfanstiehl) sometimes laid the stylus 'needle-down' in the now-deteriorating foam in that little bubble-box. This means that a force has been on that delicate ADC suspension for who knows how long. In my experience, this usually turns out okay, especially if you're working with a dealer who can give you a replacement if you notice something wrong. If the seller only has one stylus to sell you, I'd ask a bunch of questions beforehand.
Okay, with that little problem out of the way, do you have a tonearm capable of tracking at 0.7g with a low enough mass to keep that very compliant suspension from wallowing over even tiny warps? If so, then go to it-- get an R-15E and have fun.
Alternatively, get a cheapie beige-brick stylus from a model that tracked at 1.25g and maybe crank the high treble up a bit.
You can get away with the inductance mismatch and go ahead and use a 104, but the one you really want, if you really want to see the 10E4 do its big trick, is the 107-DEX, and strangely, some NOS 107-DEXes have been showing up in Pfanstiehl-type packages for mostly-reasonable prices. ADC called it the R-15E.
There's only one problem: some repackagers (like Pfanstiehl) sometimes laid the stylus 'needle-down' in the now-deteriorating foam in that little bubble-box. This means that a force has been on that delicate ADC suspension for who knows how long. In my experience, this usually turns out okay, especially if you're working with a dealer who can give you a replacement if you notice something wrong. If the seller only has one stylus to sell you, I'd ask a bunch of questions beforehand.
Okay, with that little problem out of the way, do you have a tonearm capable of tracking at 0.7g with a low enough mass to keep that very compliant suspension from wallowing over even tiny warps? If so, then go to it-- get an R-15E and have fun.
Alternatively, get a cheapie beige-brick stylus from a model that tracked at 1.25g and maybe crank the high treble up a bit.
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hifitommy
Super Member
one thing must be said about the low tracking force WAR between shure and ADC. shure was touting 1gr VTF and adc was yelling o.75gr. VERY few available tonearms were capable of anywhere near that.
a Vestigal perhaps but that came to being late in that war. my modified rabco st4 managed one gram after carebul weight reduction of said arm. i really surprised myself.
mostly, it took 1.5 grams of vtf to do the job for demanding passages, which brings me to the record to use in absence of a great test record. the Royal Scam by Steely Dan has aggressively recorded cymbal work on two cuts.
interestingly, each one is cut two on either side. the Caves of Altamira, and Haitian Divorce are the cuts, either will do. start playing at 1.75gr and reduce the force in increments of 0.2 gr until you detect the cymbals mistracking. then back off .1 or .05 gr until it tracks perfectly. NOW you can play just about anything without fear of mistracking which can and will damage the vinyl permanently if not detected in time.
just about all of us have a copy of that record somewhere so its a free test record, so to speak.
a Vestigal perhaps but that came to being late in that war. my modified rabco st4 managed one gram after carebul weight reduction of said arm. i really surprised myself.
mostly, it took 1.5 grams of vtf to do the job for demanding passages, which brings me to the record to use in absence of a great test record. the Royal Scam by Steely Dan has aggressively recorded cymbal work on two cuts.
interestingly, each one is cut two on either side. the Caves of Altamira, and Haitian Divorce are the cuts, either will do. start playing at 1.75gr and reduce the force in increments of 0.2 gr until you detect the cymbals mistracking. then back off .1 or .05 gr until it tracks perfectly. NOW you can play just about anything without fear of mistracking which can and will damage the vinyl permanently if not detected in time.
just about all of us have a copy of that record somewhere so its a free test record, so to speak.
Almost forgot: if at all possible, use these cartridges in arms whose motion is fluid-damped! And go easy on the antiskate when using a pivoted tonearm (ie, don't overcompensate):
Re your observation that the 26 stylus fits the 10E Mk IV: yes it does. The 104s through the 107s all interchange physically without a whimper. But as we say on AK: "Just 'cause it fits don't mean it's right." Still, it won't sound wrong, just a little brighter or duller, depending. There's one other difference that may or may not matter to you: The 10E Mk IV's R-15E stylus is a step beyond the 25's in one respect: it substitutes electrodynamic damping for mechanical (eg, rubber) damping, and this has an impact on high-frequency tracking ability, as Shure taught us later. This carried over to the XLM, which arrived the next year. You might even say that the 10E Mk IV is a clunky-looking pre-XLM.
Re your observation that the 26 stylus fits the 10E Mk IV: yes it does. The 104s through the 107s all interchange physically without a whimper. But as we say on AK: "Just 'cause it fits don't mean it's right." Still, it won't sound wrong, just a little brighter or duller, depending. There's one other difference that may or may not matter to you: The 10E Mk IV's R-15E stylus is a step beyond the 25's in one respect: it substitutes electrodynamic damping for mechanical (eg, rubber) damping, and this has an impact on high-frequency tracking ability, as Shure taught us later. This carried over to the XLM, which arrived the next year. You might even say that the 10E Mk IV is a clunky-looking pre-XLM.
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Stand By for Adventurrrrre!
This is called the Integra XT-II p-mount.
Integra? Who knows what I'll find with this? Not just a rhetorical question; a few of you already know what I'll find. For a long time I believed the few examples of this cartridge that appeared were DIY jobs or, at worst, simple counterfeits... But so many have popped up recently that I believe that they're genuine. They don't look like the drawing in the Pfanstiehl catalog, but if they weigh 6.0g with stylus, I think there's a good chance they're genuine.
This is called the Integra XT-II p-mount.
Integra? Who knows what I'll find with this? Not just a rhetorical question; a few of you already know what I'll find. For a long time I believed the few examples of this cartridge that appeared were DIY jobs or, at worst, simple counterfeits... But so many have popped up recently that I believe that they're genuine. They don't look like the drawing in the Pfanstiehl catalog, but if they weigh 6.0g with stylus, I think there's a good chance they're genuine.
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SA-708
Appalachian-American
Perhaps we need a new thread for ADC p-mounts, so as to not draw this one too far afield.
I have two ADC p-mount cartridges that look similar to this; my other ADC p-mounts are from the PSX series.
One of them is an aftermarket hack job, that I bought still sealed in Rivertone packaging, documented here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=384624
The other one I purchased used, and it came with a broken Radio-Shack-co-branded stylus on it, that I am quite certain was not the original stylus. The fit and finish on it is better than the Rivertone, plus it is the correct weight for the T4P standard. I wish I knew more about it.
I have two ADC p-mount cartridges that look similar to this; my other ADC p-mounts are from the PSX series.
One of them is an aftermarket hack job, that I bought still sealed in Rivertone packaging, documented here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=384624
The other one I purchased used, and it came with a broken Radio-Shack-co-branded stylus on it, that I am quite certain was not the original stylus. The fit and finish on it is better than the Rivertone, plus it is the correct weight for the T4P standard. I wish I knew more about it.
Yes, if this cartridge turns out to be the real thing, I'll start a new thread. [It is, and I did.]
Interesting that you did end up with one version of this cartridge that was the proper weight. That's encouraging.
The question I most want answered is whether this body really is an Integra body. An electrical measurement should settle that. [It is!]
Interesting that you did end up with one version of this cartridge that was the proper weight. That's encouraging.
The question I most want answered is whether this body really is an Integra body. An electrical measurement should settle that. [It is!]
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boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
The new thread could be called ADC's Sleds.
Doug
I always sort of thought of them as ballet slippers but they do look like bobsleds, don't they?
John
I always thought slippers or maybe dress shoes of the shovel-nose kind. "The Footwear Cartridges of ADC" might be a little confusing as a thread title. Hmmm...
"ADC's Triumph TR-7s-- the Shape of Things to Come" No, that would be getting wilfully obscure.
"ADC's Doorstop Series-- Now in P-Mount!"
"ADC's Triumph TR-7s-- the Shape of Things to Come" No, that would be getting wilfully obscure.
"ADC's Doorstop Series-- Now in P-Mount!"
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Update: as fallout from the Great Sonus Cantilever Attempted Rescue [from hardened rubber], I present this alternative to any Brick owners who have resigned themselves to heavy Brick bodies making even lightweight tonearms act like the arm on a '50s Webcor changer: Transplant the cantilever into a later, lighter ADC or even Sonus. This works best if you have a Model 25/26/27 or a 10E Mk II or IV, but it can be done if you only want to fit your 220XE stylus to your old XLM (a strange combination I have yet to try but have no doubt that it will work). All you need is a top or near-top stylus from the XLM/VLM/QLM series with good rubber but a worn/bent/missing stylus to act as a host. You push the host's old cantilever out with a toothpick and gently press the Brick one into the same square hole.
I did this with an ADC Model 26 Brick. If you recall, the 26 is basically a one-stylus version of the Model 25's set of three. I pulled the cantilever out of a NOS R-26 stylus and coaxed it into a lightly-used QLM 36 Mk III. Sounds great at a gram.
Now, if you have an actual collapse of the rubber suspension of any ADC cart, you are urged to take a peek at boreas's Possible Cure For Collapsed Stylus Suspension thread. Some people will be comfortable treating the rubber bits on their 50-year-old stylus with smelly chemicals, and for those who would not, I recommend the above procedure. There are risks in both cases, but either is preferable to never hearing a favorite cartridge again.
I did this with an ADC Model 26 Brick. If you recall, the 26 is basically a one-stylus version of the Model 25's set of three. I pulled the cantilever out of a NOS R-26 stylus and coaxed it into a lightly-used QLM 36 Mk III. Sounds great at a gram.
Now, if you have an actual collapse of the rubber suspension of any ADC cart, you are urged to take a peek at boreas's Possible Cure For Collapsed Stylus Suspension thread. Some people will be comfortable treating the rubber bits on their 50-year-old stylus with smelly chemicals, and for those who would not, I recommend the above procedure. There are risks in both cases, but either is preferable to never hearing a favorite cartridge again.
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revox-b77
Super Member
I just picked up a Tonar replacement 104 DE. I will give it a try on a ADC 230XE body. I measured the inductance 3 times last night and came up with 311mh in each channel. Should be balanced well anyway. Not sure what table to mount it on though. PL 518 or SL 1300 MK II. I have nothing with a damped arm.
