New Wharfedale W70s in de house!

OK, I guess they aren't new, but they are to me. I had been wanting a pair of these for a while. The last pair I saw was 2 years ago in very rough cosmetic condition, and the seller was asking top dollar for them, so I passed. Two weeks ago, I picked up a single free Wharfedale W15/CS (CS stands for cloth surround) which has a moth eaten cloth surround. The next day, I worked from a different location than normal, and decided to drop by the local Salvation Army. It is in a rough neighbourhood right near a very affluent area of Ottawa.

They had two vintage pair of speakers for auctioning. A pair of Bose 901 series 3 with Tulip stands and the Series 3 EQ, and a pair of Wharfedale W70s. Hmmm! I asked when the auction was going to be held and was told Dec 13. I kept quiet about them, to reduce the chances of auction competition.

Yesterday, I got them. I was determined, and willing to go up reasonably high. Almost got them for my original bid, but someone else wanted them to, so I paid double my initial bid.

Got them home and hooked them up. Sound muffled compared to the Yamaha NS-220RM I had been listening to and the JBL L46 I had on at that moment on my newly restored MC2205. Today I spent a bit of time on them. I deoxited the pot on the back of each cabinet. Cosmetically, the cabinets aren't in bad condition. The grills are perfect, and the cabinets just have some dragging scratches. I think I can get them to 9 out of 10 condition without too much effort. I don't think they were ever opened up. And I suspect they haven't been used much lately. Here are some pictures I took of each one.

I am very happy about this. I look forward to experimenting with different amplifiers I have here.

More pictures!

I will load up a few more pictures in a minute.

I decided not to open up the tweeter enclosure to identify what kind they are. Sound very smooth though. I have a feeling they aren't the Super 3s, but I'll find out in the next few weeks. I want to fix up the cabinets and install some proper speaker interconnects. Don't know if I want to replace the cap in them though. If I do, I will want to try some PIO caps. Do I need to get a tube amp now?

Last pictures for now.

I have tried them with an assorted mixture of modern music. They seem to really like Reggae! Led Zeppelin didn't sound so good on the Yamaha CA-1010 in class A mode.

I'm going to play them for a while and get to know them. Curious to hear what happens over time.

Incidentally, what is the impedance of these speakers?

If they sound muffled it sounds like one or both of the tweeters is not working, if deoxit did not cure the issue.

Congrats on a nice pair of speakers however - I miss the W70s I had here even though I never got to hear them in full swing. The guy I sold them to is going to stop by and bring them over so I can install the new midrange driver in them for him, so I will get a chance then. Hopefully my Sansui 500a is working by that time so I can hear the two together!

Keep us posted on how things turn out for you.

I don't think there is a problem with the tweeters. They tweet well, but the bass is different from the Yamaha's or the JBL's. I've confirmed all the drivers are working though. I am hoping that they will sound better as I use them. I will see. The important thing is they seem to be all original and in very good condition for 50 year old speakers.

canuckaudiog said:

If they sound muffled it sounds like one or both of the tweeters is not working, if deoxit did not cure the issue.

Congrats on a nice pair of speakers however - I miss the W70s I had here even though I never got to hear them in full swing. The guy I sold them to is going to stop by and bring them over so I can install the new midrange driver in them for him, so I will get a chance then. Hopefully my Sansui 500a is working by that time so I can hear the two together!

Keep us posted on how things turn out for you.

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Thanks!

I just finished reading about your W70s. That would be really sweet to have the Sansui ready to test drive them. I don't have any tube amplifiers in the house. Not sure I want to go in that direction right now. I'm loving the Bose and McIntosh sound these days. Never thought I would have a pair of blue meters, which is why I went for the Bose orange! Very different from each other, but very nice.

I was going to bid on those but I just have too much stuff. They were at the Montreal Road Salvation Army store in Vanier.

Out of curiousity, how much was your winning bid?

Paul

- PM if you feel more comfortable that way.

Probaby not Super 3s

I have a pair of these and everything on yours appears to be the same on my pair. I did pull a cover off of one the tweeters (kind of a pain) and mine were not Super 3 tweeters, I will try to find the pics I took of mine and will post picture of them if I can find it. Dont push these to hard, they were made at time when most amplifiation was 20watts or less.

petes'picks said:

I have a pair of these and everything on yours appears to be the same on my pair. I did pull a cover off of one the tweeters (kind of a pain) and mine were not Super 3 tweeters, I will try to find the pics I took of mine and will post picture of them if I can find it. Dont push these to hard, they were made at time when most amplifiation was 20watts or less.

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I bet they are the purple tweeters?

I had a pair of Dovedale IIIs and they had the purple tweeter. Very nice sounding speakers. I also had some Litton IIIs with a blown tweeter, so I have a spare. But I believe they do all right with power, as long as it is really clean power. I pushed the Dovedale IIIs on my Bose 1801 and they sounded great! Very restrained, but once you let your ears get used to them, they are very special. Why I wanted to try these. :thmbsp:

Nice!

Those look to be W70B's or late W70's. My guess would be late '63 or sometime in '64. If the tweeter has a ceramic magnet, then they could be from '65, but they are NOT W70C's. That's why I think the tweeter COULD be alnico. Still trying to pin that down because they started adding ceramic woofers to various W** models sometime in late '63, and yours are ported, which means they were made PRIOR to the W*0C series.

But either way, those have Super 3 tweeters. Let's get that part out of the way right off. Both the alnico AND ceramic versions of the Super 3 are VERY-nice-sounding tweeters. Both are cone-types. They do need to be off the floor high enough to put those tweeters at eye/ear-level. Clear the dispersion path between you and the Super 3's, and it will make a big difference. And make sure both W70's are equal distance from the centerpoint of your listening spot (Basically, that point would be where your 'nads are when you're seated... I measure from that point to the bottom centerpoint of each speaker, right at the 6:00 point where the wood meets the grill). Doing this will significantly-improve the soundstage.

Lots of potential in these old Wharfies. Try them with something tube-powered or tube-like. They are good with Sansui models from the late '60's and early '70's. Think warmish and tubey. They LOVE Fisher tube gear. Sherwoods from the '60's and early to mid '70's will also work well. Sony early solid-state. Scott gear from the tube and early solid-state eras also. H/K is a possibility.

Once I went tube (and got it all up to snuff) and threw the oil caps in the W90's, everything changed for me. Yesterday I was playing Primus, and it sounded fantastic, way-better than it had a right to sound ("Pork Soda"... The W90's love that). By the way, Zeppelin will sound great through those, but it may take the right amp/receiver. I LOVE Zeppelin through the W90's with the Fisher powering them. The Stones will sound great as well. Keep in mind, those will open up A LOT over time. The surrounds will soften up, and you'll hear them wake up more and more. The way my W90's are at this point, I wouldn't change a thing. The Super 3 is a lousy tweeter for something like Metallica's S/T album, but it wasn't designed for that purpose. I think it's an EXCELLENT driver though. I'm addicted to the damn things (Why else would I have them in my avatar?). They're finicky, but they can put out one hell of a soundstage, and I love that smoothness. And with a little volume, they can cut through nicely (I'm listening to "Paul's Boutique" at the moment... The W90's do well with this album).

You'll also love those alnico midwoofers. Spend time getting those W70's right. It'll be worth the effort. There are quite a few W70-owners who really love them.

BilboBaggins said:

I don't think there is a problem with the tweeters. They tweet well, but the bass is different from the Yamaha's or the JBL's. I've confirmed all the drivers are working though. I am hoping that they will sound better as I use them. I will see. The important thing is they seem to be all original and in very good condition for 50 year old speakers.

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Hey Bilbo, take a look for writing on the back of the cones. You may find info that shows a date, presumably the date of manufacture. I found white numbers on the black woofer paper cone on my Rosedales. Please share what you find.

Those look to be ceramic magnets. Interesting crossover. Seems there is no choke. The capacitor is huge. It should be pulled and checked. If out of spec, look for a pio, steer clear of other types and if possible go with older caps as other seems while not economy friendly they do better with the SuperTweeter. I used a set of polys in mine on the 1st go around and the result was unlistenable. On the 2nd try used multiple oils in parrellel to get within .1 mfd measured to each other and the original spec. What a world of difference.

The pots are pretty well sealed but can be cleaned with repeated applications. It is interesting to see you have the dual mini banana plug terminals. Only other pair besides mine I have seen. My set are alnico so earlier.

Brian said:

Those look to be ceramic magnets. Interesting crossover. Seems there is no choke. The capacitor is huge. It should be pulled and checked. If out of spec, look for a pio, steer clear of other types and if possible go with older caps as other seems while not economy friendly they do better with the SuperTweeter. I used a set of polys in mine on the 1st go around and the result was unlistenable. On the 2nd try used multiple oils in parrellel to get within .1 mfd measured to each other and the original spec. What a world of difference.

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Right? I don't know for sure exactly what the determining factor was, but when I put the Sprague and Sangamo caps in mine (swapping out the Dayton 250v polypropylenes), it was like going from a sick, infected speaker to a healthy, new, incredibly-natural-sounding one. That's why I had recommend ones of the higher voltage, 'cause I knew that they worked really, really-well in my case. The Spragues on the mids in my W90's are 1000VDC, and the Sangamo ones on the tweeters are 600VDC. I can take the volume down to a whisper before the soundstage collapses. Wasn't possible with the 250v Daytons, plus they seemed to add a weird glare that made them kinda' fatiguing in my 14x12 room. But with the oil caps, they do fine in here. And so-smooth now, so-listenable. Fun in a big, square box.

Brian said:

Those look to be ceramic magnets. Interesting crossover. Seems there is no choke. The capacitor is huge. It should be pulled and checked. If out of spec, look for a pio, steer clear of other types and if possible go with older caps as other seems while not economy friendly they do better with the SuperTweeter. I used a set of polys in mine on the 1st go around and the result was unlistenable. On the 2nd try used multiple oils in parrellel to get within .1 mfd measured to each other and the original spec. What a world of difference.

The pots are pretty well sealed but can be cleaned with repeated applications. It is interesting to see you have the dual mini banana plug terminals. Only other pair besides mine I have seen. My set are alnico so earlier.

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I've read your thread about the W70s and I've read all of Gang-Twangers threads on Wharfedilia. Early on when I was getting back into audio, I found a pair of Dovedale IIIs. These sounded great on my Yamaha M-40 amp, but not as great on my other amps. So I moved them onward. I found the surrounds on them to be a little stiff. They could probably have used some rubber restorer on them.

I also have a couple of Sansui receivers sitting around, so I just hooked up my Sansui 2000 to them. Bjork sounds good! But I also have a 661 and a Sherwood S-7200. I'm also wondering what a Pilot 225 would sound like with them. This is the part I love the most. Trying out different equipment.

Scarberian said:

Hey Bilbo, take a look for writing on the back of the cones. You may find info that shows a date, presumably the date of manufacture. I found white numbers on the black woofer paper cone on my Rosedales. Please share what you find.

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I will do that. With Christmas getting so close, I don't know when I'll get to it, but my intent is there.

The 2000 is a good match. Probably a little warmer than the 661, but that 661 is also more power (How many watts? I forget). The S-7200 is a strong possibility. How many watts is that one? Again, I forget.

I would definitely try the Pilot. That's tube-powered, right? Those W70's you have are very-tube-friendly.

Brian, what are you running your W70s on now? You had been trying all kinds of amplification on yours and I noted that you had run them on a MC2105 with a C28. I have the MC2205 with a C26. Only they seemed so dull after listening to my JBL L46s on the Mc. Which tap did you use on the 2105?

Gang-Twanger said:

The 2000 is a good match. Probably a little warmer than the 661, but that 661 is also more power (How many watts? I forget). The S-7200 is a strong possibility. How many watts is that one? Again, I forget.

I would definitely try the Pilot. That's tube-powered, right? Those W70's you have are very-tube-friendly.

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Yes, I'm enjoying it more and more as my ears adjust to the differences. Listening to Led Zeppelin Remasters right now. Ramble On.

I do really like the Sansui 2000. Nice amp! The 661 is 20 watts per channel but a very respectable damping factor of 60. Tomorrow I will get out the Sherwood, the 661, and the Pilot. I also have a Rotel MA-812 I want to try with them.

The Sherwood is 32 watts per channel. The Pilot is unknown, but my guess would be between 30 and 45 watts per channel. I just can't find anything on it. Another very nice amp.

Unfortunately, I don't have any tube amps, but someone is bringing over his tube amp tomorrow and maybe I can prevail on him to try the tube amp on the W70s.

BilboBaggins said:

Brian, what are you running your W70s on now? You had been trying all kinds of amplification on yours and I noted that you had run them on a MC2105 with a C28. I have the MC2205 with a C26. Only they seemed so dull after listening to my JBL L46s on the Mc. Which tap did you use on the 2105?

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Been loving them with the Sherwood S9500c. 1st gen ss integrated pumping out 20 watts rms, ftc. On the 2105 a tube amps, I used 8 ohm taps. I have also used it on the 25 watt philips 785 and Yamaha CA610II in passover preamp mode. In that mode, it puts out about 12 watts rms as gain is reduced by 6db. My tube amp was the Sherwood S5000II. I have ecycled a lot of amps on the ones I now have and years ago the W70Ds. On the Ds, I ran the Marantz 19 as my favorite match with its 50 watts rms. My current bigger amps I have tried and found no advantage with the higher power for my listening levels. Now, I do not play at high volumes, preferring to concentrate on dynamics that are not stressed or compressed. The W70s when average volume is pushed even with a higher powered amp will start compressing but the volume will go higher.

I'll try the Sherwood tomorrow.

BTW, I've been reading more of the W70 threads and the serial number on one of mine is 3297. The other one is missing the label.