Pickering XV-15 cartridge fans and users, spout for a while!

That's something only you can decide, of course, but those resistance readings wouldn't scare me off.

John

Good to know. I also have a D200 stylus with a broken tip. Any thoughts on having that retipped with a paratrace by Expert Stylus vs. buying a Jico shibata?
 
Good to know. I also have a D200 stylus with a broken tip. Any thoughts on having that retipped with a paratrace by Expert Stylus vs. buying a Jico shibata?
I'd get Expert's opinion but I personally don't think the D200 is a good choice for a retip. The cantilever's too stout and the suspension isn't compliant enough to make for a fast and responsive assembly. I'd be looking for a D625, D750, D200 or D1800. You can also look for one of the "Triple E" Stanton styli .

John
 
I'd get Expert's opinion but I personally don't think the D200 is a good choice for a retip. The cantilever's too stout and the suspension isn't compliant enough to make for a fast and responsive assembly. I'd be looking for a D625, D750, D200 or D1800. You can also look for one of the "Triple E" Stanton styli .

John

Makes sense on the D200. I'll keep my out for the stylii you listed, but probably buy a Jico in the meantime.
 
I thought I'd better awaken this thread once again. Needlestein has done some tests on "Stanton 680 stylus" and his test that he ran using the "Shure Audio Obstacle Course Era III". I have the same test record and did the same with the TVOM 4606-DEX stylus.

I have been noticing, that the stylus and probable the cartridge (XV-15) is ever so slightly tilted to the right.

Well, from my tests, there is an issue.

Side One Band 2 Musical Bell test: Level 3, things go south. A little rasping is evident. Level 4 rasping is noticeable and lvl 5 it's annoying.

Band 3 Sibilance Test: Level 3 again , things go south. The SHHHHHH is annoying at lvl 4 and stopped test before Lvl 5.

For normal playing, I have not detected any performance issues. The XV-15 and 4606 DEX sounds nice. So, I've got to take a closer look at the mounting tabs of the XV-15. The stylus seems to fit securely and properly. I'll report back.
 
I thought I'd better awaken this thread once again. Needlestein has done some tests on "Stanton 680 stylus" and his test that he ran using the "Shure Audio Obstacle Course Era III". I have the same test record and did the same with the TVOM 4606-DEX stylus.

I have been noticing, that the stylus and probable the cartridge (XV-15) is ever so slightly tilted to the right.

Well, from my tests, there is an issue.

Side One Band 2 Musical Bell test: Level 3, things go south. A little rasping is evident. Level 4 rasping is noticeable and lvl 5 it's annoying.

Band 3 Sibilance Test: Level 3 again , things go south. The SHHHHHH is annoying at lvl 4 and stopped test before Lvl 5.

For normal playing, I have not detected any performance issues. The XV-15 and 4606 DEX sounds nice. So, I've got to take a closer look at the mounting tabs of the XV-15. The stylus seems to fit securely and properly. I'll report back.

Correcting the azimuth on these is simple. All you do is bend the tabs until you get the right azimuth.

The easiest way to do it is with the cartridge still attached to the headshell and the stylus removed. Just grasp the cartridge body and bend it in the desired direction until the azimuth is correct.

Once you've done that, try the Era III AOC again and see if there's an improvement.

John
 
Last edited:
Okay John. New results.

Bell Test: lvl 1-3 is perfect . Lvl 4 slight raspy. Lvl 5 :Raspy

Sibilance Test: Lvl 1-4 perfect. Lvl 5 Some lower lvl SHHHHHH.

Using a camera hot shoe level, that's about as close as I can been the XV-15 to a lvl position in the head shell. I think for normal playing , this should be better ????

Ken
 
Oh, and be sure to specify the VTF you're using. To be truly geeky, verify it with a digital scale.
 
Okay John. New results.

Bell Test: lvl 1-3 is perfect . Lvl 4 slight raspy. Lvl 5 :Raspy

Sibilance Test: Lvl 1-4 perfect. Lvl 5 Some lower lvl SHHHHHH.

Using a camera hot shoe level, that's about as close as I can been the XV-15 to a lvl position in the head shell. I think for normal playing , this should be better ????

Ken

Well, it's certainly an improvement. It may get better still as the suspension breaks in.

Oh, and be sure to specify the VTF you're using. To be truly geeky, verify it with a digital scale.

Absatively!

Posilutely!

It's not at all uncommon for the aftermarket Stanterings and Pickertons to require more stylus pressure than the originals. A little more VTF and/or a little more time might make that last bit of sibilance and harshness disappear.

John
 
TVF is 1.0gr. Very little AS. Looking back into this thread, I had issues with anything past 1.25, with the suspension beginning to collapse . I think we all agreed and after checking with VOM (Gary) the recommend VTF is .75-1.25.

After playing one of my test records "Dire Straits" the XV-15 and 4606-DEX actually sounds pretty good. A little more detail and separation in the instruments.

Thanks for the help.

Ken

EDIT: 1.00 on the digital scale .
 
Hello Steve and friends. I've been watching a thread dealing with AR overhang specs. So I started playing around with alignment of my XV-15.

I have been using a Stevenson alignment with ConradH Arc protractor generator. TT is my Modded Yamaha TT500.

I decided to switch to Baerwald. Well lo and behold, a change. The dynamics just jumped out at me. The sound stage seemed to spread out a bit. I was quite happy with the SQ I was getting, but now, it's like an improved cartridge .

How is it possible, that changing alignment formats , can produce such improvements ?
 
Hello Steve and friends. I've been watching a thread dealing with AR overhang specs. So I started playing around with alignment of my XV-15.
I have been using a Stevenson alignment with ConradH Arc protractor generator. TT is my Modded Yamaha TT500.
I decided to switch to Baerwald. Well lo and behold, a change. The dynamics just jumped out at me. The sound stage seemed to spread out a bit. I was quite happy with the SQ I was getting, but now, it's like an improved cartridge .
How is it possible, that changing alignment formats , can produce such improvements ?

I've been waiting for the alignment expertise crew to jump in here to answer your question, but they ain't jumpin' lately! Maybe it's because the question is deep into a long thread about a lot of things besides alignment we could forgive them, maybe. Anyway, I'll offer what little I know/remember about it from studying up I did a couple years ago, when I was trying to get my XV-15 better aligned on my Dual 1229 after mating the Pfanstiehl 4822-DEE .2x.7 Stanton-style aftermarket stylus on it. At first the stylus was remarkable, but then, as I tried it with more and more different sorts of records, I kept getting terrible sibilance. I just need to align it correctly I thought. I started reading many AK and vinylengine threads about alignment, I started printing out alignment protractors of various nationalities, and trying to use them. Eventually, I gave up and put that stylus away, and I didn't learn until late last fall, reading posts about it by needlestein that that stylus is a fine one, but only if you are willing to dial the VTF well above the published specs to as high as 3.5 grams! It is essentially unusable at 1.5g. (I am happily using it now at 2-2.15 grams.)

But anyway I may have learned some things about alignment while struggling in futility with that stylus, and those things go something like this:
a) for various reasons, it is totally impossible for a cartridge/stylus combo to be perfectly aligned while playing all of the grooves of a record;
b) alignment protractors essentially strive for having them perfectly aligned at two different points across the groove bed and additionally strive for the alignment in the grooves before, between, and after those two points to be "acceptable";
c) whichever two points are chosen there are *trade-offs* that effect what passes for the acceptability factors in the less-well aligned tracks;
d) the different alignment protractor designs, therefore, make different choices regarding those factors.

Could choosing a different alignment protractor give you somewhat different listening results? Yes, if the choices they are making differ enough. (It also might matter what sort of records you're listening to, as well as, might other things that can affect tracking and sound: VTF, VTA, anti-skate...yadda, yadda, yadda. Maybe the alignment that sounds less well could sound better if one or more of those other things were corrected, adjusted, fiddled with.)

I haven't delved back into this issue lately since my Miracord has a pointed post I can raise. If I adjust the cart in the holder, so that the needle is right over the post's point, I'm supposed to be aligned. Much less hair-pulling involved than with my previous experience, and as far as I can tell it works "acceptably."
 
Last edited:
I thought I'd better awaken this thread once again. Needlestein has done some tests on "Stanton 680 stylus" and his test that he ran using the "Shure Audio Obstacle Course Era III". I have the same test record and did the same with the TVOM 4606-DEX stylus.
I have been noticing, that the stylus and probable the cartridge (XV-15) is ever so slightly tilted to the right.
Well, from my tests, there is an issue.
Side One Band 2 Musical Bell test: Level 3, things go south. A little rasping is evident. Level 4 rasping is noticeable and lvl 5 it's annoying.
Band 3 Sibilance Test: Level 3 again , things go south. The SHHHHHH is annoying at lvl 4 and stopped test before Lvl 5.
For normal playing, I have not detected any performance issues. The XV-15 and 4606 DEX sounds nice. So, I've got to take a closer look at the mounting tabs of the XV-15. The stylus seems to fit securely and properly. I'll report back.

kcblair,

Can you tell a smidgin more about the process involved in using that Shure Audio Obstacle course record? I have been thinking of getting one of those.

I also thought I would mention here, in case you or others participating in this thread haven't noticed that I have recently posted my own comparison of three styli with my new Stanton 680.V3 cartridge, one of the tested styli being the 4606-DEX you've been mentioning. Now, I should stress that my test is not one that involves ANY sort of technical measurement. ALL I DID WAS listen to each of 9 different stereo LP tracks and took notes on what I heard and how I heard it when played with each of the three styli. I had to set the VTF lower for the 4606-DEX, but all other factors in the test were constant as far as I can tell. I would of course be interested in criticisms, corrections, suggestions, comments about the test and whether or how it might be of value to others.

Actually, the one thing about the test I am already questioning myself it that the 4606-DEX went right out of the package and into this test, without any break-in time to speak of. Right now, I'm continuing to use that stylus with the idea of spot-checking a few of the test tracks in a week or so to see if I hear any change.

Here's the post where I set up for the test:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8573889&postcount=13

Here's the post where I summarize the results:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8579161&postcount=15

Here's the post where I give all the details for what I heard with each track:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8579166&postcount=16

Earlier in that thread I described how the cart's original stylus worked with my very old 10" mono LPs. Next in that thread I'm going to compare the new Stanton to my XV-15 (which is donkey years older) to see if they really amount to *the same cartridge*.
 
Last edited:
Hello Steve. The Shure Audio Obstacle Course ERAIII uses actual instruments and voices to test different issues with cartridges. The narrator tells what to listen for. Musical bells, sibilance and bass drums. No AS tests. A lot for the tests are geared around mis-tracking of the stylus. There is also a violin test, to test mid freq. tractability, too.

So far, my 4606DE is sounding pretty good. Now I will run the Shure Audio test.

EDIT: If I get to level 4 without issues or very little issues, I put on a few actual records, (Dire Straits, Dave Brubeck) and give a listen. If those records sound the way I like, I'm good.
 
Last edited:
Nice , informative testing, Steve. I'm going to get one of those Phanstiehl 4822-EE. I didn't realize it had a .2x.7 stylus.
 
Nice , informative testing, Steve. I'm going to get one of those Phanstiehl 4822-EE. I didn't realize it had a .2x.7 stylus.

If yours is like mine, the first thing you'll have to do, whether you want to or not, is take the brush off. The brush for mine squeaked against the housing any time riding on the record moved it up or down at all. The squeak came right out of the speakers!

Hopefully the quality is fairly even from stylus to stylus for that part number. It would also be interesting what others find as a usable VTF. Needlestein recommends above 3 grams. Mine works on most records at about 2, but 2.25 is a bit more versatile. The Obstacle Course might pin it down pretty well. I wonder how may people have thrown them in the trash after trying to use them at 1 gram (middle of the range for the stylus it's supposed to replace)?

Do post what you find if you get one!
 
Last edited:
I wonder why the VTF is so high for that stylus. YEp, I don't use brushes, no need to, clean records. If I may ask, which seller did you get the Phanstiehl 4822-EE ?
 
I think needlestein theorized in some thread that for some reason Pfanstiehl (or their supplier?) may have more trouble with styli for the Stanton housing configuration than they do with the Pickering style ones.

Then, too, this seems to be the only fairly cheap .2x.7 generic out there for the xv-15/680/681s. The needle is obviously good, but something about the cantilever or how its mounted just doesn't work right at the VTF of the needle it's supposed to replace.

I personally don't think between 2-2.5 grams is horrible, but it can't exactly be called light-tracking.

I might have ordered mine from Anderson Music (andysdeals or something like that?) on 'bay. I don't know if they still stock them or if the price is the same. I think it was somewhere between 20 and 30 bucks, but I really can't remember.
 
Back
Top Bottom