Great Deal of Speaker/Driver Travel - Playing Vinyl

thadius65 · Feb 24, 2015

So I have been enjoying a great deal of vinyl listening since setting up my Marantz 6350. One item that is troubling me is a great deal of speaker/driver travel (pulsing in/out) during beginning of record and in between songs and quiet parts. It is also occurring during louder parts also, but obviously less noticeable. I think it may be impacting some of the clarity of my music playback.

I am on concrete floor with/berber carpet. Speakers are a foot to the side of the turntable and receiver, sub is three feet away. I am playing through my Marantz 2275 at volumes between 1/4 and 1/2 volume. Bass at 1/2, mid at 5/8's and treble at 3/4's (sorry, my ears) with LOUD switch engaged. Tone mode is IN. I have tracking weight for Ortofon VMS20E MKII set at 1 gram and antiskate at 1 as well.

This occurs on many albums, so not the vinyl. What am I missing? Any tips greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

jasonsong86 · Feb 24, 2015

You need a subsonic filter.

leesonic · Feb 24, 2015

You might be getting acoustic feedback. Try moving the speakers and subwoofer away from the turntable. If the problem goes away, you need to either keep the speakers away, or move the turntable.

Lee.

Ken Boyd · Feb 24, 2015

Turn off the loudness switch, it is there for low volume listening. Most amps automatically decrease the loudness as you increase the volume but not sure about your amp, I would make sure and turn it off as you increase the volume and make sure you don't have your bass attenuator cranked up to the max. After you get use to it like that for a while you might find you like the sound better.

thadius65 · Feb 24, 2015

jasonsong86 said:
You need a subsonic filter.

Any recommendations? Does it come in a male/female adapter to go between interconnect and receiver?

Also, I will continue to play with settings as suggested.

thadius65 · Feb 24, 2015

Ken Boyd said:
Turn off the loudness switch, it is there for low volume listening. Most amps automatically decrease the loudness as you increase the volume but not sure about your amp, I would make sure and turn it off as you increase the volume and make sure you don't have your bass attenuator cranked up to the max. After you get use to it like that for a while you might find you like the sound better.

I will add this still occurs at 1/4 volume.

vinyl1 · Feb 24, 2015

One well-known cause is arm/cartridge compatibility. If the cartridge compliance is not suitable for the tonearm mass, then you will get resonance at an undesirable frequency, such as 15 Hz. Ideally, the resonance frequency should be between 8 and 12 Hz.

iLUVanalog · Feb 24, 2015

thadius65 said:
So I have been enjoying a great deal of vinyl listening since setting up my Marantz 6350. One item that is troubling me is a great deal of speaker/driver travel (pulsing in/out) during beginning of record and in between songs and quiet parts. It is also occurring during louder parts also, but obviously less noticeable. I think it may be impacting some of the clarity of my music playback.

I am on concrete floor with/berber carpet. Speakers are a foot to the side of the turntable and receiver, sub is three feet away. I am playing through my Marantz 2275 at volumes between 1/4 and 1/2 volume. Bass at 1/2, mid at 5/8's and treble at 3/4's (sorry, my ears) with LOUD switch engaged. Tone mode is IN. I have tracking weight for Ortofon VMS20E MKII set at 1 gram and antiskate at 1 as well.

This occurs on many albums, so not the vinyl. What am I missing? Any tips greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

You THINK or you KNOW it's impacting the clarity of your music playback? The only way to KNOW is to listen. Woofers move a lot more air than any other driver in your speakers, so yes they will move. Even when you play a CD, the woofer cone will piston. The higher the volume, the more movement there will be. One thing that is a MAJOR mistake is having the LOUDNESS compensation engaged. You only need that if/when you listen at very low levels. It is otherwise NOT needed. Turn it off. As long as you leave it on, there will be excessive movement of the woofer driver because the LOUDNESS compensation boosts the bass to ridiculous levels. And...if you have the LOUDNESS compensation engaged AND have the bass control maxed out or almost maxed out....big mistake. Again, you DO NOT need the LOUDNESS compensation for most listening.

Ken Boyd · Feb 24, 2015

1 gram might be a bit light for your VTF, try bumping that up a bit.

Jeffery · Feb 24, 2015

vinyl1 said:
One well-known cause is arm/cartridge compatibility. If the cartridge compliance is not suitable for the tonearm mass, then you will get resonance at an undesirable frequency, such as 15 Hz. Ideally, the resonance frequency should be between 8 and 12 Hz.

This was my guess, too. :scratch2:

telemike · Feb 25, 2015

http://www.hlabs.com/products/crossovers/index_files/Page395.htm

SUB BASS BLOCKER
37 HZ 18 DB PER OCTAVE HIGH PASS FILTER PROTECTS YOUR SPEAKERS FROM VERY LOW RUMBLE THAT CAN DAMAGE YOUR WOOFER. BY REMOVING RUMBLE YOU CAN GET HIGHER LEVELS OF OUTPUT POWER.

This is configured in the FMODCABLE™ black package with a dot on the output cable.

Brian · Feb 25, 2015

Remove the subwoofer from the system and see if it stops. If it does, you will need to move the subwoofer or speakers to stop the interaction. What you describe was common in sound rooms with multiple speakers.

savatage1973 · Feb 25, 2015

37 Hz is a bit of a high crossover frequency to eliminate rumble. I use the Harrison Labs PFMOD with adjustable pass frequencies that can be set at 20 Hz, 25 Hz, 30 Hz or 35 Hz. I use it between my preamp and amp set at 25 Hz.

bobins08 · Feb 25, 2015

All of the above.

Speaker placement. - The concrete floor helps you here but keep the subwoofer away and try to get more space than 1 foot from speaker to TT. The TT should be on a sturdy, level surface. Improve isolation for TT (vibrapod, racquet balls, sorbothane, etc) .

Loudness - Only useful with low volumes, otherwise it colours the sound and can drive the woofer crazy.

Arm-stylus - This is not a good match.. The VMS 20 wants a light arm. The Marantz arm is medium mass. Too much arm mass for the springy stylus tip. The VMS 10 would actually match your arm better, even though it is lower in the Ortofon line. You may be tracking too light as well.

thadius65 · Feb 25, 2015

Thank you all for the information. Will continue to troubleshoot tonight.

Other than the VMS10, what other are excellent fits for Marantz 6350 medium mass arm?

bobins08 · Feb 25, 2015

thadius65 said:
Thank you all for the information. Will continue to troubleshoot tonight.

Other than the VMS10, what other are excellent fits for Marantz 6350 medium mass arm?

Trying to avoid real high cost:

Ortofon VMS 10E

AT 95E
AT 440mla

Shure M97xE (with damping brush down for your arm)

Naoko MP 110
Denon DL 110

thadius65 · Feb 25, 2015

I am getting a lot of repeated suggestions. They are sinking in gentlemen!

)

thadius65 · Feb 25, 2015

Ok, now I have speakers and sub 5' away from sides. I have multiple things in motion... isolation blocks, Shure M97xE on it's way. Adjusting LOUD settings is also underway.

I got these blocks - http://www.ebay.com/itm/191314389252?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Thanks!

cdk99 · Feb 25, 2015

thadius65 said:
I am getting a lot of repeated suggestions. They are sinking in gentlemen! )

You got feedback about feedback. :^)

Sounds like you are on the right path.

tubeornotube · Feb 25, 2015

Another newbie to vinyl???

You are experiencing ' record warp wow'.

Un less you have a turntable equipped with an outer ring record clamp or a spindle record clamp or both..it is there on all records.

Records are not perfectly flat..As the cartridge rides up and down these warps the cantilever moves up and down much like the springs/shocks on a luxury automobile.
As the cantilever moves it produces a very low frequency well below most music on your vinyl.
This gets amplified and is seen as long excursions of the woofers cone.

A good subsonic filter is recommended as previous AKer's mentioned.

Good luck

Matt....tubeornotube

Great Deal of Speaker/Driver Travel - Playing Vinyl

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