It's missing the detail

T

tomf63

Active Member
After listening to the M97xE for a while I started to get board, something was missing. Last night I put the XSV3000 back on, balanced and set anti-skate.
There it is again, that smile on my face as I sit back and get lost in the soundstage.

Help me out here, I need a daily driver to use in place of the Pickering on my 1510. The Shure is missing the detail and I think I'd rather try something else rather then put another 75 bucks into an upgraded stylus for it.

Any suggestions on what cartridge I can run on the 1510 that will give me the same detail as the Pickering?
 
The Pickering XSV3000 original stylus is a Shibata type stylus.

In order to get the same detail, you need another cartridge with a Shibata type or better stylus. :music:
 
I traded off my M97xE for basically the same reasons. Coincidentally, I also run Stanton cartridges now.

AT stuff does tend to be on the opposite side of the spectrum as Shure. They seem to tend towards being bright on the couple things I've heard one on. Its not obnoxious, and you'd probably like it if you thought the Shure was not detailed on the high end. If you loved the Shure though, I expect an AT would make your ears scream.
 
I have the same feelings about the M97xE. It can get boring because of the rolled off highs. You can drive yourself crazy fiddling with loading or VTA.

Put a SAS on it and becomes a new cartridge.

The Denon DL 110, if found at a good price, is a very nice cartridge.
 
Research catman's many postings here about optimizing the capacitive loading for the M97xE.

When properly dialed in, the M97xE is warm in character, but not overly lacking in detail. Its mids are amazing for a sub-$100 cartridge, and that's more important to producing a convincing musical image than having top-end razzle dazzle.

If the cap is not properly dialed in, an M97xE can indeed sound dull and/or bloated.
 
The XSV Stylus is a StereoHedron, much closer to a VdH tip than a Shibata. And no generic will even get you 10% there performance wise. Expert Stylus Company's ParaTrace retip will deliver the Pickering performance.
 
As someone who felt similarly about the M97xE you may wish to reconsider the upgraded stylus for it. My wife gave me the LPGear VL stylus upgrade for Christmas and it's now my daily driver on my PL-9. Difference between the VL and the stock is night and day. Oh, and by the way it was on my wish list after having read Kent's endorsement of it in another thread.
 
Thanks for the input guys. Seems the most inexpensive upgrade, as pointed out by a few, is simply a stylus upgrade, I may seek that route. I don't really have the ability to change the capacitive loading... Jico SAS and LP Gear VL are the 2 recommended options? Which produces the least sybilance and tracks those inner groves nicely?
 
That's not really a fair fight, in my opinion. I have 3 of the M97xe carts, and I've got a buddy who had the Pickering 3000. Not even close, to my ears.

I've heard fantastic things about the SAS.
 
I've also go the XSV3000 with a generic replacement (not SAS) and the VL upgrade to the M97xE is superior to the generic 3000 IMO. Can't speak to the SAS.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
The XSV Stylus is a StereoHedron, much closer to a VdH tip than a Shibata. And no generic will even get you 10% there performance wise. Expert Stylus Company's ParaTrace retip will deliver the Pickering performance.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that neither LP gear's Vivid Line nor the JICO Shibata are even 10% as good as the stereohedron?
 
tomf63 said:
Thanks for the input guys. Seems the most inexpensive upgrade, as pointed out by a few, is simply a stylus upgrade, I may seek that route. I don't really have the ability to change the capacitive loading... Jico SAS and LP Gear VL are the 2 recommended options? Which produces the least sybilance and tracks those inner groves nicely?
Click to expand...

There are tons of threads about this cartridge, loading it at 62k, 68k and whatnot. None of it ever really helped much in my assessment.

Shure recommends 47k and 250 pf. That turns out to be the sweet spot. You did not mention your equipment but your MM input is most likely 47k and somewhere between 100 and 200 pf. Is the 1510 a Technics? Its' cables are in the 100 to 150 pf range.

I never heard much difference at all between 200 and 350 pf with this cartridge.

You will have more chance to dial it in better by playing with vtf, brush up/down, and vta.

Best way to improve this cart is the stylus. I have heard the stock one and the SAS. The SAS makes it sound much better. Not even close.

I would like to find a cheaper option that upgrades it over the stock stylus. I have not heard the LP Gear VL.
 
Last edited:
How well does the VL stylus for the M97xE handle inner groove distortion? I find it easier to get on board with the VL than the more expensive SAS. If the VL can't handle IGD while the SAS can, I'll gladly pay the extra money.
 
SSax makes a good point. The VL is affordable compared to the SAS, would really like to hear comments pertaining to the VL's performance, especially IGD.

My 1510 is a first build, I've rewired it with KAB cables, made a huge difference in sound quality. The stock wires were shot when I got the table.

As far as input goes, it's running through a Technics SA-GX690, EQ and Pinnacle towers with a sub. Can't adjust the loading unless I do it externally and honestly I have no interest in building something either. I'd rather upgrade the cartridge or stylus to achieve the detail in sound that I'm looking for.

The VL is tempting...
 
I am saying the generics are too inconsistent from sample to sample. And too often need to be tracked heavier than spec. (Jico comes closest to consistent). But the StereoHedron is best by many, many times over. Or a ParaTrace. But these StereoHedrons are very special, a VdH type line contact, which is very high class. Few other pickups resolve HF that good.
 
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