Why did the manufacturers drop most FM/AM tuners from the US market?

First, their are still some new FM/AM tuners on the U.S. Markets like Yamaha's T-S500, but most of the mid-fi equipment makers haven't offered a tuner in their line-up for the U.S/North American markets in years.

Yamaha gave us one, but not their best model, which is their T-S1000. which is offered to selected European/Asian markets. Onkyo offers both the T-4070 and T-4030 to the European market, but those models are not offered in the American market either. The U.S. is one of the largest markets in the world and I cannot figure why don't offer them here. With that said, they would sell more FM tuners here than in any other markets.

I know that home FM listening is going down here in the U.S. due to both the introduction of both the internet and satellite stations, but I'm pretty sure that I'm not the only guy who still enjoys FM radio here in the U.S.

Btw, I've been eyeing Onkyo's M-5000 power amp and their C-3000 pre amp at the same time when I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on either Yamaha's A-S2000 or their A-S2100 integrated amp.

Since Yamaha's T-S1000 and Onkyo's T-4070 are geared to the Euro/Asian markets, would these tuners pull in American radio signals without any serious conversion work here in the U.S.?? I'm aware that if I purchased the European models, I would have to use a power converter or have its voltage changed over from 220 volts to the North American 110 voltage. I'm not too crazy about buying gear from Europe, but if this is the only way of obtaining a new higher-end tuner to go with my planned purchase than I have no choice but to go that route. Also, I'm moving away from vintage gear since I now prefer newer gear over the classic stuff.

Thanks for looking!!

Demand and programming.
HT receivers dominate the market and do include AM/FM in most cases.
I think you're overlooking the MR87 (and MR88).
The dearth of quality programming makes heavily investing in a tuner a losing proposition.

A spin up and down the AM and FM dials in most markets will answer this question better than words :-(

Oh, plus there are hundreds of satellite and streaming "radio" resources now.

That said, most markets still have one or two worthy (and even decent sounding) stations.

47Labs (famous for their simple, elegant amplifiers) has just introduced an analog FM tuner:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/listening-141
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tuner/messages/1/14903.html



EDIT: This photo is nicer... I just noticed the rather crude looking cabinet work on the photo above when I posted it here! Looks like a spray-painted Hammond box :-( OK for homebrew but rather inexcusable for a $1500 commercial, "boutique" product. I'm gonna give 47Labs (famed for their aesthetic sense as well as sound) the benefit of the doubt and assume Art received a preproduction/"beta" sample!



In my case, for example (with limited internet bandwidth, no cell service and no cable in my remote location) a good tuner still makes sense. Listening to the radio (Vermont public radio) as I type this, in fact.

Fortunately, there are countless wonderful and inexpensive (as well as wonderful and expensive) options on the used market.

Sherwood S3000 V 1 by mhardy6647, on Flickr

Decline in market share and general interest.

While FM used to be a valid source of music many years ago, these days, the interest is more relegated to background music and/or talk/news programming.

With digital and internet streaming, higher resolution stations (320kbps or above), the sound quality rivals the best of FM with a diversity of music that FM lacks. FM radio is on it's last legs as a source of music, hence very few companies are willing to invest in producing and marketing a FM analog tuner.

A lot of people have MP3 players and iPods which have the advantage that you can select music you like, there are no commercials and the music in your playlist is what you want.

History unfolded wrongly. FM should have used its advantage to break new music onto the scene and force the record labels to sign whatever had become a favourite on radio. But it worked the other way around: radio plays what the labels say is the best music. It always puzzled me who the decision makers were; when an album was released, who decided what the hit records on the album were?

Most buyers bought receivers, not component separates like tuners and preamps and amps. Most users don't know or care enough to find out what devices are best for their use. And receivers are neater - no jumble of cords to hide. It also makes some sense to have correct impedance matches within a unit. In my Trio and Scott receivers, the output impedance of the tuner section is adequate to drive the preamp section which also has adequate drive to the amplifier. With a tuner, you need a low-impedance buffer stage to drive the cables and there is no such thing as a non-distorting buffer.

1. I suspect that still today, most HT systems being sold are anchored by so-called "AVRs" (Audio-Video Receivers) with AM-FM (and perhaps also satellite) tuners built in.

Here's a completely randomly selected, current production example, e.g.: http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/aventage/rx-a3040_black_u/?mode=model


AM/FM (HD) & Sirius/XM


2. Classically, many/most tuners had a cathode follower outputs and were pretty darned robust in terms of interfacing with a preamp or integrated amplifier.

C'mon over to this thread where we've discussed the death of FM,
based on the repetitive playlists of Classic Rock stations

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=608117

These threads on Tuners and narrow playlists belong together!

If you want a Yamaha then a TX-1000 or T-85 will be a better performer than the current T-S500 and T-S1000 offerings. I checked the specs on both and they are identical and nothing special, no doubt because most tuners these days use cheap generic chipsets from China. Even better would be a Yamaha T-2; the current Yamaha line has gone back to the same sleek brushed aluminium looks, and IMHO is probably the best tuner Yamaha ever did.

You would probably be able to pick up any of these vintage Yamahas at less or around the same price as buying one of their new tuners.

Regards,
Nick

I dig that 47 labs unit, but I'm a sucker for round tuning dials.

FM radio has been wounded, but it is not dead. If you are old enough to know the history of FM, you will know that it was the vehicle to introduce new music to the public. They were the "marketing group" for the record industry. If you were a pro in the record industry, you knew which songs were going to be a hit, because they were that good.

Now with the advent of new, wireless technology and the internet, the MP3 started to steal the show (literally). We all know the history of that with zillions of songs downloaded to devices illegally, unpaid for, or to make it simple, stolen. With the loss of income, the record industry and its influence (over radio stations) has dwindled to a trickle.

Indie record labels have no influence (no money) so they can't peddle their wears, so what new music is the broadcast industry suppose to introduce to the public? And while broadcasters must adhere to FCC regulations, internet radio can pretty much get away and say what ever they want with out fear of FCC punishment.

So to sum up my opinion on the matter, I would say that theft of music is the number one cause of the downfall of broadcast radio. we reap what we sow.

On a side note, doesn't anyone find it funny how the government mandated that every broadcaster get on the HD bandwagon (so they all spent gobs of money doing so) and now, there is hardly any one manufacturing a HD tuner.

Go figure......

Sam Cogley said:

I dig that 47 labs unit, but I'm a sucker for round tuning dials.

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I think it's cute, too... its guts seem kind of nominal, but at least its not frighteningly expensive, it's built and sold by folks who are passionate about good sound and, heck, it might sound just fine -- it's got potential.

On the other hand, one can pick up one of these (TM-175, that is) on eBAY any time for 20 or 30 bucks...


source: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1970/h038.html


image source: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150866

trhee said:

Decline in market share and general interest

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I have not turned FM on any of my receivers in years. The DJ's talk to much, to many commercials and the same playlists. I may occasionally listen to FM in the car but after a bit I turn the radio off. The road noise sounds better.

I even stream my local NPR station rather than tuning it in over the air.

Good news in the UK.. Apparently,not as many DAB tuners were sold as originally hoped for by the UK government and the DAB fan club,so the once planned 2015 FM turn off has been delayed until 2020 at the very least.. so I guess SQ still matters to many.
Looks like my beautifully built,great sounding 70's tuners still have lot's of life in 'em yet.

mhardy6647 said:

1. I suspect that still today, most HT systems being sold are anchored by so-called "AVRs" (Audio-Video Receivers) with AM-FM (and perhaps also satellite) tuners built in.

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Both pre/pros I've purchased, spanning the last 9 or 10 years, have tuners in them. I think I used the tuner in each one exactly once, just to see if they worked.

I do listen to the radio, mainly AM or FM talk, during road trips in the car, or on portable radio when fishing et al, or for about 1/2 hour in the morning for the local morning show on a clock radio/alarm clock.

WaynerN said:

FM radio has been wounded, but it is not dead. If you are old enough to know the history of FM, you will know that it was the vehicle to introduce new music to the public. They were the "marketing group" for the record industry. If you were a pro in the record industry, you knew which songs were going to be a hit, because they were that good.

Click to expand...

Radio is wounded - but only because it has shot itself in the foot. Then why is it that for every album I have, my favourite songs have little correlation with what has been promoted by these "experts"? As far as new music is concerned, FM was first exclusively classical until it was followed by "album rock" and this branched out into the balkanized varieties of rock. One of the functions of marketing is to listen to the customer. Instead, radio acted like a sales outlet, telling clients what they needed rather than finding out what they wanted.

Now with the advent of new, wireless technology and the internet, the MP3 started to steal the show (literally). We all know the history of that with zillions of songs downloaded to devices illegally, unpaid for, or to make it simple, stolen. With the loss of income, the record industry and its influence (over radio stations) has dwindled to a trickle.

Click to expand...

This was being done ever since cassette tape. And seriously, if you think the record industry has loosened its grip on radio, you are mistaken. It would be preferable if the record industry did lose its influence. All of it. Theft of music is not the problem. Dilution of the market by having zillions of stations in one area is the problem.

Indie record labels have no influence (no money) so they can't peddle their wears, so what new music is the broadcast industry suppose to introduce to the public? And while broadcasters must adhere to FCC regulations, internet radio can pretty much get away and say what ever they want with out fear of FCC punishment.

So to sum up my opinion on the matter, I would say that theft of music is the number one cause of the downfall of broadcast radio. we reap what we sow.

On a side note, doesn't anyone find it funny how the government mandated that every broadcaster get on the HD bandwagon (so they all spent gobs of money doing so) and now, there is hardly any one manufacturing a HD tuner.

Go figure......

Click to expand...

Who said radio had to be a megabucks industry? Why should radio operate like payola? Your label doesn't have a dime to its name? SO WHAT? it's the music that matters. These are public airwaves that should be offered to people who provide programming that is differentiated from anything else on the air in any given location. And who said networks were a good idea in radio? They have a point in television where production costs of television programs could not be borne by individual stations, but there is no analog to this in radio. If radio showed some leadership in breaking new bands onto the scene, then maybe it would have some influence. But all you get is predigested corporate rock, test marketed and proven safe.

Theft of music is not the problem. If you are an advertiser looking to spend money, in the early days, you could place ads on the few existing stations and get reasonable coverage for your dollar. Now with almost every channel in use, there is no way to demonstrate that the dollar goes as far even in just coverage of a given demographic let alone general coverage.

I would favour the adoption of a new class of radio license in addition to the rock, country, MOR, gospel and other formats, a "new music" format. The stations would have to have artist and repertoire people to find new music that has not been signed to a label yet. And just to be diabolical, only allow them to continue to play artists that they had played before they were signed.

Frequently my tuner goes on at 6 am and stay on until I go to bed.

My dial is full of stations, of all kinds. Smooth Jazz I have to import over the Internet, and for fun Radio Capri sometimes.

The college stations seem to have the best music programming along with a few of the public stations.

amptramp said:

Radio is wounded - but only because it has shot itself in the foot. Then why is it that for every album I have, my favourite songs have little correlation with what has been promoted by these "experts"? As far as new music is concerned, FM was first exclusively classical until it was followed by "album rock" and this branched out into the balkanized varieties of rock. One of the functions of marketing is to listen to the customer. Instead, radio acted like a sales outlet, telling clients what they needed rather than finding out what they wanted.



This was being done ever since cassette tape. And seriously, if you think the record industry has loosened its grip on radio, you are mistaken. It would be preferable if the record industry did lose its influence. All of it. Theft of music is not the problem. Dilution of the market by having zillions of stations in one area is the problem.



Who said radio had to be a megabucks industry? Why should radio operate like payola? Your label doesn't have a dime to its name? SO WHAT? it's the music that matters. These are public airwaves that should be offered to people who provide programming that is differentiated from anything else on the air in any given location. And who said networks were a good idea in radio? They have a point in television where production costs of television programs could not be borne by individual stations, but there is no analog to this in radio. If radio showed some leadership in breaking new bands onto the scene, then maybe it would have some influence. But all you get is predigested corporate rock, test marketed and proven safe.

Theft of music is not the problem. If you are an advertiser looking to spend money, in the early days, you could place ads on the few existing stations and get reasonable coverage for your dollar. Now with almost every channel in use, there is no way to demonstrate that the dollar goes as far even in just coverage of a given demographic let alone general coverage.

I would favour the adoption of a new class of radio license in addition to the rock, country, MOR, gospel and other formats, a "new music" format. The stations would have to have artist and repertoire people to find new music that has not been signed to a label yet. And just to be diabolical, only allow them to continue to play artists that they had played before they were signed.

Click to expand...

Almost every FM station that started up, was a re-broadcast of their AM station's program, and most of them were either rock or country. Almost none were classical. They actually had to sell commercials to make money, and you need to have people listening to sell commercials, so there was very little classical music. That is why NPR plays classical music, because most of the population would never pay to listen to it.

Regarding your next dissection, most people back then recorded their own LPs onto cassette, to save the LP from damage. Yes, they would occasionally copy their buddies LP, but it was no where near the mass scale that it is today, which most is complete and total theft.

And thirdly, I have never heard any promotion of any new music by any Indie label.......ever. So, where did that get them?

WaynerN said:

Almost every FM station that started up, was a re-broadcast of their AM station's program, and most of them were either rock or country. Almost none were classical. They actually had to sell commercials to make money, and you need to have people listening to sell commercials, so there was very little classical music. That is why NPR plays classical music, because most of the population would never pay to listen to it.

Regarding your next dissection, most people back then recorded their own LPs onto cassette, to save the LP from damage. Yes, they would occasionally copy their buddies LP, but it was no where near the mass scale that it is today, which most is complete and total theft.

And thirdly, I have never heard any promotion of any new music by any Indie label.......ever. So, where did that get them?

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Our history in Canada unfolded a little differently. The CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation) had the first FM licenses and then as now, it was government supported with no commercials and at the time played classical music. FM appealed to the audiophile because it was touted as noise-free. In the mid 1950's, commercial FM stations sprang up and the adoption of multiplex stereo in 1961 started moving FM toward its eventual dominance over AM.

WaynerN said:

.........They actually had to sell commercials to make money, and you need to have people listening to sell commercials, so there was very little classical music. That is why NPR plays classical music, because most of the population would never pay to listen to it........

......Yes, they would occasionally copy their buddies LP, but it was no where near the mass scale that it is today, which most is complete and total theft.....

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Good points, one cannot overlook the concentration in the ownership of radio stations, the music industry, and other media. The homogenization effect and elimination of locally controlled content is unmistakable.

While I am more than capable technically, the wide scale theft of intellectual property, aka music, is appalling and unashamed. I watched a concert several times on YouTube, after which I felt morally obligated to purchase, and did so. I also commented about what had transpired on the artist's Facebook page, the concert was taken down a few days later.

Our local Classic Rock stations, for the most part, have a repeating loop of 500 hits that repeats every two or three days.