Budget amp to test a theory?

I had a similar conversation with somebody else here on AK who also uses headphones a lot. One particular pair of headphones was a difficult load to drive he mentioned. I offered to build him one of my NAD 3020 amps from a 1020 preamp, complete with metal film resistors, film caps, and all those other tweaky bits. I also suggested using the non functioning soft-clipping switch (I remove the components for this circuit when I do a rebuild, it serves no useful purpose IMHO) to bypass the dropper resistors on the headphone output, for when he used these headphones with the difficult load.

I would suggest a NAD 3020 for your listening. Forgot the 20w per channel rating, these things can really punch way above their weight. Difficult loads (like 4 ohm speakers) don't upset them either, there was a story how at HiFi shows, they used to connect four pairs of speakers up to one. It will give much more expensive amps a run for their money in everything but absolute power. Chip amps? Chips belong in the middle of your club sandwich, not in your amplifier.

If you're ever off from work during the week, you should come over and have a listen to some of the stuff I have sitting around.

Lee.
 
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That NAD soft clip thing I don't know about. It doesn't shut off on mine. The switch moves, but on the scope it shows the same waveform either way. I haven't actually ohm checked the switch though. It doesn't make squares, but it makes a very strange looking wave that I can't imagine sounds good. I half wonder if that doesn't affect sound below clipping.


I should actually do some power tests on my own T amp. Its one of those $20 Lepai ebay wonders. The load resistors are out on loan at the moment but the results may be interesting. I'm curious how close it actually will get to it's power rating. For what I ask it to do, it won't ever matter though. I need it to make computer sound, and not be large. It meets that requirement swimmingly.
 
gadget73 said:
That NAD soft clip thing I don't know about. It doesn't shut off on mine. The switch moves, but on the scope it shows the same waveform either way. I haven't actually ohm checked the switch though. It doesn't make squares, but it makes a very strange looking wave that I can't imagine sounds good. I half wonder if that doesn't affect sound below clipping.
Click to expand...

Pull all the components for the soft clipping, that's what I do on the 3020s. I think it is dependant on the gain of the output transistors, and since this changes with production tolerances, it never really works right. They should have spent the money on a decent muting/protection circuit. That's something I'm working on right now, I just need to bite the bullet and buy the kits to etch and drill my own PCBs.

Lee.
 
Ill be happy to try some of the gear that local AKers have to offer. Could even lead to me buying something.

However I was really hoping to hear about the Audio source and the Dayton.

Sent from my ZTE Olympia
 
RamblinE said:
I'm just trying to see what I can do with more headroom. I'm ready to spend real money on a real amp yet. And if I were I'd have a lot of listening and research ahead of me before making a concrete decision.

At $35 however there's literally nothing to lose by trying a TPA 3116

Sent from my ZTE Olympia
Click to expand...

Understood. Note that a Lm 3886 Chip is ~6$ each from a Domestic Supply house. The Data sheet circuit allows for a DIY point to point build from 'Very" few parts. An hour's work if a skilled 'solderer' .
Just my 2 C worth :)
 
gadget73 said:
That NAD soft clip thing I don't know about. It doesn't shut off on mine. The switch moves, but on the scope it shows the same waveform either way. I haven't actually ohm checked the switch though. It doesn't make squares, but it makes a very strange looking wave that I can't imagine sounds good. I half wonder if that doesn't affect sound below clipping.


I should actually do some power tests on my own T amp. Its one of those $20 Lepai ebay wonders. The load resistors are out on loan at the moment but the results may be interesting. I'm curious how close it actually will get to it's power rating. For what I ask it to do, it won't ever matter though. I need it to make computer sound, and not be large. It meets that requirement swimmingly.
Click to expand...


The datasheets for the chips are pretty well detailed for output power and distortion vs supply voltage vs load.

Not to imply measurements wouldn't be interesting...but even without measurements it can be interesting (or perhaps enlightening is more correct) to see the technical specs vs the sales slickers.
 
Emotiva Mini X100 is a fantastic amp... similar/exactly the same as the Dayton without the crossover. Iver heard both... The Mini X100 could be the last amp youd ever need... Its a real show stoper/punching above its weight for sure... have vol pot to.
 
prighello said:
How do you like the creek I was looking at one.
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I like it a lot. I'd describe it as clean and "neutral" but not harsh or edgy like some SS amps are prone to be (from what I understand). It mates well with my Tekton Lores. I like the volume control. It'll go very quiet; perfect for napping.

I added the AM/FM Ambit module (easy to install), so I guess I now have a receiver. Next purchase is a rooftop (or attic) FM antenna to improve reception.
 
I have a Topping TP21 which is not as powerful as my TPA3116.

I also have two bridged APA 150's which I use to drive efficient OB woofers. They work fine for woofer duty but when compared to the TPA3116 they lack fidelity in two channel stereo use.
 
I certainly think the 3116 amplifier is worth exploring in terms of sound quality, if you have the right speakers. the Hafler M5 does sound like an appropriate speaker for the most part, decent efficiency, but the 6 ohm load means power output of the 3116 will be down slightly. These chip amps are spec'd at power output into 4 ohms, and when the impedance rises they fall off in power output. But the 3116 should have enough power for your application. But once again, if you are listening at louder volumes, it may very well fall off like your other chip amp does. I haven't owned one, and I tend to use higher efficiency speakers than you do, and with no...or very minimal crossover.

I think there is merit in exploring some of the AK offerings you have been extended. I think another option that should be considered is a used Adcom amplifier off the newer 4 digit series. from what I can see on cruising Ebay is that the 5400 can be had between 100 and 200 bones. That might also be worth exploring, as Nelson pass also had a hand in the design, and that is intriguing also. Reliability should be up there as these are newer amps than the venerable 3 digit series amps.

Just a thought or two from the farm.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
I certainly think the 3116 amplifier is worth exploring in terms of sound quality, if you have the right speakers. the Hafler M5 does sound like an appropriate speaker for the most part, decent efficiency, but the 6 ohm load means power output of the 3116 will be down slightly. These chip amps are spec'd at power output into 4 ohms, and when the impedance rises they fall off in power output. But the 3116 should have enough power for your application. But once again, if you are listening at louder volumes, it may very well fall off like your other chip amp does. I haven't owned one, and I tend to use higher efficiency speakers than you do, and with no...or very minimal crossover.

I think there is merit in exploring some of the AK offerings you have been extended. I think another option that should be considered is a used Adcom amplifier off the newer 4 digit series. from what I can see on cruising Ebay is that the 5400 can be had between 100 and 200 bones. That might also be worth exploring, as Nelson pass also had a hand in the design, and that is intriguing also. Reliability should be up there as these are newer amps than the venerable 3 digit series amps.

Just a thought or two from the farm.

Regards
Mister Pig
Click to expand...

I thought I read that the actual output rating for the TPA3116 was actually closer to 6 ohms, rather than 8 ohms.
 
trikster said:
I thought I read that the actual output rating for the TPA3116 was actually closer to 6 ohms, rather than 8 ohms.
Click to expand...

Basing my thoughts on this, the info on the 3116 is highlighted, as the paragraphs reference the whole series of 31xx amps. So power output into 6 ohms is going to be lower than what is spec'd for 4 ohms.

e TPA31xxD2 series are stereo efficient, digital amplifier power stage for driving speakers up to 100W/2Ω in mono. The high efficiency of the TPA3130D2 allows it to do 2x15W without external heat sink on a single layer PCB. The TPA3118D2 can even run 2x30W/8Ω without heat sink on a dual layer PCB. If even higher power is needed the TPA3116D2 does 2x50W/4Ω with a small heat-sink attached to its top side PowerPad. All three devices share the same footprint enabling a single PCB to be used across different power levels.

Supports Multiple Output Configurations
2×50-W into a 4-Ω BTL Load at 21 V (TPA3116D2)
2×30-W into a 8-Ω BTL Load at 24 V (TPA3118D2)
2×15-W into a 8-Ω BTL Load at 15 V (TPA3130D2)
Wide Voltage Range: 4.5 V – 26 V

EDIT: That 50 watts per channel is also with a 21 volt power supply. Give it 12 or 18 volts and I would suspect you are going to see a drop in power output, which may or may not be relevant to the OP's application.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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Mister Pig said:
Basing my thoughts on this, the info on the 3116 is highlighted, as the paragraphs reference the whole series of 31xx amps. So power output into 6 ohms is going to be lower than what is spec'd for 4 ohms.

e TPA31xxD2 series are stereo efficient, digital amplifier power stage for driving speakers up to 100W/2Ω in mono. The high efficiency of the TPA3130D2 allows it to do 2x15W without external heat sink on a single layer PCB. The TPA3118D2 can even run 2x30W/8Ω without heat sink on a dual layer PCB. If even higher power is needed the TPA3116D2 does 2x50W/4Ω with a small heat-sink attached to its top side PowerPad. All three devices share the same footprint enabling a single PCB to be used across different power levels.

Supports Multiple Output Configurations
2×50-W into a 4-Ω BTL Load at 21 V (TPA3116D2)
2×30-W into a 8-Ω BTL Load at 24 V (TPA3118D2)
2×15-W into a 8-Ω BTL Load at 15 V (TPA3130D2)
Wide Voltage Range: 4.5 V – 26 V

Regards
Mister Pig
Click to expand...

Thank you for the correction. I wish I could find where I saw it showing 6 ohm...
 
There's a shop near me called old school audio. No phone number. No marketing. Cash only. Very underground. If you know this area its right next to Positively Records in Levittown. The owner, Dennis, is very friendly and accommodating. He's had a small selection of Adcom amps, the 535 and the 545. Today he let me come down with my Hafler monitors and some records and demo the 535. I bought it D:

I have to knock out some of mom's yard work but then I'm hoping to get everything all hooked back up and give that Adcom a go in my system. It played nice with my Haflers in the store, and the Carver pre we used. However the older generation Music Hall table was not holding up its end of the bargain :)

Sent from my ZTE Olympia
 
RamblinE said:
There's a shop near me called old school audio. No phone number. No marketing. Cash only. Very underground. If you know this area its right next to Positively Records in Levittown. The owner, Dennis, is very friendly and accommodating. He's had a small selection of Adcom amps, the 535 and the 545. Today he let me come down with my Hafler monitors and some records and demo the 535. I bought it D:

I have to knock out some of mom's yard work but then I'm hoping to get everything all hooked back up and give that Adcom a go in my system. It played nice with my Haflers in the store, and the Carver pre we used. However the older generation Music Hall table was not holding up its end of the bargain :)

Sent from my ZTE Olympia
Click to expand...

Decided to go with the 3 digit series? Sure that is a good idea? they are known for having cap leaking issues, at least the 555 is. The small four digit amps should be better suited for your needs as I recall you don't do cap replacements....I dont either! But the Adcom amps do represent a lot of value for the dollar, and if the price was right...there is a lot good sound for short green.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
Basing my thoughts on this, the info on the 3116 is highlighted, as the paragraphs reference the whole series of 31xx amps. So power output into 6 ohms is going to be lower than what is spec'd for 4 ohms.

e TPA31xxD2 series are stereo efficient, digital amplifier power stage for driving speakers up to 100W/2Ω in mono. The high efficiency of the TPA3130D2 allows it to do 2x15W without external heat sink on a single layer PCB. The TPA3118D2 can even run 2x30W/8Ω without heat sink on a dual layer PCB. If even higher power is needed the TPA3116D2 does 2x50W/4Ω with a small heat-sink attached to its top side PowerPad. All three devices share the same footprint enabling a single PCB to be used across different power levels.

Supports Multiple Output Configurations
2×50-W into a 4-Ω BTL Load at 21 V (TPA3116D2)
2×30-W into a 8-Ω BTL Load at 24 V (TPA3118D2)
2×15-W into a 8-Ω BTL Load at 15 V (TPA3130D2)
Wide Voltage Range: 4.5 V – 26 V

EDIT: That 50 watts per channel is also with a 21 volt power supply. Give it 12 or 18 volts and I would suspect you are going to see a drop in power output, which may or may not be relevant to the OP's application.

Regards
Mister Pig
Click to expand...

I have not looked at the datasheets for a while, but those ratings listed above may be at 10% THD.
"Clean" power from these chips is often quite a bit lower than what the literature promotes at the top level specs.

I have a 3116-based amp, sounds fine, but you're not going to get 50/30 watts (@4/8) clean power out of it. In most cases that wont be a big deal either, just saying watch the specs as one tries to make comparisons.
 
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This is a $20 TPA3116 powered by a $35 Astron linear power supply and it gives my SET amps serious competition.

I've owned other chip amps and more t-amps than I care to remember but the TPA3116 is in a different league.

As more and more folks discover the TPA3116 ( and they seem to do so on a daily basis ) the giant thread here is destined to set all sorts of AK records.

Don't know it's power output but it drives the 87db B22's with headroom to spare.

picture.php
 
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