Butler Audio TDB hybrid amplifiers?

shortcuttomo

Active Member
Butler Audio has been making their TDB amps for almost a decade now; I believe there was some sort of "deep bias" modification they introduced in the late 2000s that I read was supposed to improve the sound somehow, but that was about it.

People who have them seem to really like them, and there's a couple reviews (6 moons in particular) that are very favourable. Of course, there's also a bit of FUD that really turns me off and makes me think the voodoo magic is getting to people's heads (for example the 6 Moons review goes on about the uniqueness of the "blue glow" of the tubes and what that meant in terms of the amp design - when it's just a simple blue LED trick, which doesn't leave me very trustworthy about the qualifications of that specific reviewer, haha). In general, however, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of reviews on these amps - and there's absolutely no way to listen to one, as Butler Audio is direct-ship only in Canada (and in my area in particular).

In any case, I have some terribly inefficient speakers and in theory love the concept of marrying power and low-end grip with a smooth/buttery tube sound. Unfortunately, almost everything I can find on the internet about these amplifiers is fairly old at this point - there's something to the "if it ain't broke..." concept, but unfortunately in this world new "product updates" every couple years means another round of press to remind people that your product is still good.

So, has anyone owned or listened to any of the Butler Audio amps? Do they really have a different sound than a comparable-powered transistor amp? Are there better ways to spend ~$1500 than on this particular amp in today's competitive market - has it lost an edge in terms of sound quality?

Many thanks for any input.
 
Thanks for the information about TDB amps, The 2 channel is in my price range . I will certainly look into them as I will be making a purchase in the near future and hybrid amps are on the top of the list. This is a new brand name for me so I will be gathering as much information as possible.
 
Slippers.. they aren't new to this thing. I had a full set of butler tube driver amps/crossover/line driver in my car many years ago. I bet they are very nice.
 
Slippers.. they aren't new to this thing. I had a full set of butler tube driver amps/crossover/line driver in my car many years ago. I bet they are very nice.


I've done a little research and see they have been at it for some time, but the brand name is new to me, I've never heard of them. SO you like what they do as far as sound? They make tubes for car audio? Wow!
 
Yeah, I've heard people say their car audio stuff is good. I'm interested in their home amplifiers in particular however (2250 or 5150).
 
I had the Bada DC-222 tube hybrid for awhile but it was at best a very average sounding amp and did not give "the best of both worlds" as Pacific Values likes to claim in their ads. I also owned a Yaqin VK-2100 another tube hybrid and felt it too wasn't anything to write home about. I sold them both and I'm just not keen on the whole tube hybrid concept. I'd rather have a good tube preamplifier with a solid state amp any day. All you get with a tube hybrid is a tube front end built to a lesser price point with no flexibility and little in the way of tube goodness.

My Bada was rated at 95 into 8 ohms and 190 into 4 ohms but it ran so dang hot I worried it would catch fire. You can't have decent case venting when you've got hot tubes and a big toroidal inches apart in the same chassis. I kept the top cover off with a fan blowing on it for much of the time I owned it.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/aplhifi/uas1.html
 
They had tube /solid hybrid car radio in late 50's early 60's no personal experience with hifi hybrid. I know Fisher and others had hybrid sets in the 60's usually tube tuner/pre and solid state power amps . I din't quite get that thermionic theory method that the butler amps talk about.Not enough ingfo at their website :scratch2:
but then I'm not an EE. just curious.
 
Yeah I don't understand it either - although his design does seem to be patented, which means some degree of novelty.

The Butler amps run cool, are quite powerful, and every review seems to love them. Again, which is exactly why I'm wondering why more people don't seem to know about or own them.....:scratch2:
 
they aren't new to this thing.

Years ago, I used to use this B.K. Butler guitar preamp. He know his way around a valve.

2mjjq0.jpg
 
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I guess my point is that this amp is likely VERY nice, my car audio rig new was about what that amp costs you are looking to buy. If I had the cash and was in the market I would go out a limb to try one.

Ken says he likes Butler, and he seems pretty legit too! haha
 
Yeah. I mean, I don't disagree with you...but there's a lot of options in the "$1500-2000 used, $3000 new" range. I've looked at the Parasound Halo A21 and both the Anthem A2 and P2, which are all fine amps and undoubtedly easier to find and service.

Whether there's something to the "hybrid" aspect of the Butler amps is what I'm really interested in. My two sets of stereo speakers are Gallo 3.1s and Energy 22 Reference Connoiseurs, and both are notoriously hard to drive - I've love to get a smooth tube-like midrange and high end without sacrificing low-end grunt, but 1) I think I'd have to spend a fortune to get a tube amp that can do so on 85dB speakers, and 2) I'd like to get an amp that can integrate into a home theatre system down the road.
 
Well Butler certainly isn't the first or only company that makes hybrid amps. I don't mean to make light of the price, they aren't cheap. However, since I haven't seen many for sale used I would take that as a good sign.
 
Yeah. I mean, I don't disagree with you...but there's a lot of options in the "$1500-2000 used, $3000 new" range. I've looked at the Parasound Halo A21 and both the Anthem A2 and P2, which are all fine amps and undoubtedly easier to find and service.

Whether there's something to the "hybrid" aspect of the Butler amps is what I'm really interested in. My two sets of stereo speakers are Gallo 3.1s and Energy 22 Reference Connoiseurs, and both are notoriously hard to drive - I've love to get a smooth tube-like midrange and high end without sacrificing low-end grunt, but 1) I think I'd have to spend a fortune to get a tube amp that can do so on 85dB speakers, and 2) I'd like to get an amp that can integrate into a home theatre system down the road.

Sounds like you and I are looking for the same thing. Right now I've had my eye on the Vincent SP-331 MK. Hybrid. The Butler is something I have to look into. A very well respected audio buddy gave me caution on a hybrid amp, and his suggestion has entered into the equation. Don't you just love this hobby?

FYI, I've had an extensive listen to the Galo Reference 3.1 and they where outstanding. They where being driven by Vincent audio amps/preamps and another time Bel Cato, and another time Parasound audio. Those amps had no trouble driving them. For SS, look for MOFETS (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor)to give you that good warmness that you may get with tubes. But look for good amps that use them. I have a hybrid now with a tube preamp and SS amp. Looking to replace the amp.
 
Yeah, I've also heard that many are hit-and-miss; I've never heard a hybrid amp myself. I've run various SS amps (including Parasound Halo) and a medium-quality tube setup (Chinese-made stuff) - enough to appreciate the ambience that a tube setup brings to music, but my speakers are far too underpowered in that setup.

Of course, when 6 Moons gives it such a glowing review, I'm interested. But...there's only one other review site I can find that looked at the 5150, and that was a home theatre site. So hard to know why there's almost no press on these things, and almost none available for sale.

Maybe everyone who owns them are just too busy listening? :D
 
Butler may not be in the habit of sending out review samples either. I owned a counterpoint SA20 hybrid (I think it was an SA20) and really didn't like it at all. Hybrid design doesn't guarantee good sound.

Evan
 
I've read a Stereophile review of a Counterpoint SA100 hybrid amp I was looking at that was just scathing. They didn't think it was a very good amp at all. Needless to say, I lost interest.

The Butlers interest me because unlike most hybrids I read about, they run relatively cool - indicating to me that Butler has made a unique hybrid design, which might presumably have an affect on the sound. And (also unlike most hybrids), there's some absolutely rave-review articles about them. It's like a small number of people really, really think they're great.

Now whether those people actually know what they're talking about is another thing....:D
 
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