Pioneer Elite SC67 probs, reccomendations?

EricV

Active Member
Hi gang, long time no speak...

A couple years ago, I treated myself to a shiny new Pioneer Elite SC67 for my main Tv/HTroom. I thought, I've had great success with Pioneer over the years, let's go for the Elite and really enjoy the additional quality and durability.

Man... talk about disillusioned... I have had one HDMI input after another die out, good thing it came with a bunch of them, I never had it warranty serviced because I didn't want to be without it for months (my local repair center said the HDMI boards were backordered forever) and now, I am starting to experience the dreaded UE22 error, mainly from my CATV DVR HDMI input accompanied by a deafening 60cycle hum that sounds like someone put a crescent wrench across a bus bar in a 220v panel!

I turn it off right away, turn it back on, cycle through a few HDMI inputs and come back to the CATV DVR input, and it works fine, maybe until I power it off and try again tomorrow. Rinse lather & repeat.

So, in preparation of it's impending failure, I started looking online at current HT Receivers... and for fun started cycling through Amazon user reviews, focusing on only those with 4 star rating and higher, but looking at the percentage of those that gave 1 star to the same units and looked to see why.

It seems no single brand is immune to rampant HDMI board failures, making me think it is a common sourced part from the same production line in China somewhere? I dunno... but whatever the case, I was at a quandary what to do.

So, I remembered my old buds here on AK and thought I'd ask here for your collective wisdom, and what you have found/learned, and if you could help me.

Thanks!
EricV
 
I wouldn't worry too much about the Amazon reviews. If you look at the average review number of the major players in the ht receiver market, the number is roughly at 3.9 - 4.2. A pretty tight range. Of course, if there is a lot of bitching about the same issue, that's a different story.

Onkyo seemed to have the worst problems with hdmi boards and I think the issue was eventually chased down to some bad or out of spec transistors on the boards.

Marantz, Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo seem to be the market leaders right now. Pick the one that you think looks the best. :)

Murray
 
Thanks, yeah, I don't put much stock in those reviews, but, I do use them to look for trends.

The big trend is tons of people moaning about HDMI board failures, and yes, more so about the onkyo, and I did see the youtube vid of how to replace the transistors.

But... I was really hoping someone here could just shed some insight based on experience as to weather there is a newer generation of HDMI that is less prone to failure, and which units used it... and of those, which also happened to be good units otherwise, you know, that audio thing, setup, remote, etc.


Thanks!
EricV
 
Haven't had any trouble with hdmi on my current year model Yamaha ht receiver. I assume that all the manufacturers are essentially following the same topology wrt hdmi boards so there will be similar issues across all brands. Sort of.

Murray
 
Well, I called my local Pioneer service center. They said the HDMI boards are STILL out of stock, pretty much everywhere, with no hope of restocking and time soon.

So... when my last HDMI port dies, either I switch to alternate cabling or it becomes a boat anchor. What an utter disappointment from Pioneer on this one.

Oh, the service center did offer and gave me the part number for the board. Suggested I might be able to source one used, (yeah, right, a dead one with my luck).

AND... if I was "lucky" enough for them to have been in stock, he said it was a $545.00 board!

Which means, I'd be better off going and buying a new receiver than screwing with this damn thing. Wow... yeah, I'm a little peeved.

If this is what it means to own Pioneer Elite, I'll take vanilla! :thumbsdn::yuck:

Eric
 
Does your TV have a component input? If so, have you considered using it and if so, have you tried to route component video through your receiver to the TV?
 
Does your TV have a component input? If so, have you considered using it and if so, have you tried to route component video through your receiver to the TV?

Duane, I went ahead and switched it to Component and Optical from HDMI as you suggested, and since I had the extra cables lying around, why not.

Results - Now there is no sound at all for the first minute or so (silence instead of the terrifying loud hum and static) and then the sound starts working, but I still get the UE22 on the LED display. So, if I wait until it warms up and the sound starts working, I can unplug the receiver for 10 seconds, plug it back in and the UE22 clears, and the sound continues to work along with everything else just fine. I already have the latest firmware, and there is no way to clear or downgrade it.

I ended up calling Pioneer, doing an end-run on my local service center, and let them know quite clearly how unhappy I am with the situation of going on 2years with no parts available, and getting stuck with a lemon. They opened a case # and said they'd get back to me early next week... so, now I wait...

EricV
 
Let's hope you get some results from the opened case.

Good news! Sort of... a Pioneer rep contacted me, and they are willing to cover diagnostics at the local Pioneer service center... not sure why they wouldn't commit beyond that. Maybe it's because they know there aren't parts, and want to make sure it is bad before they offer a replacement? Dunno.

In the mean time, I found out something...

I was going to go on Craigs and buy a cheapie receiver to hold me over since I have no idea how long this will take, and my TV doesn't have speakers... BUT...

My 60 Kuro does have a built in Amp, and lots of HDMI/component inputs.

The manual says it has an 18WPC X 2 channel amp and a Sub out, so for kicks I figured what the heck, it's here, it's free, might as well try it.

My front towers are big, custom 3 way jobs using a 15" woofer and 3ft tall, so I was a little wary if the 18WPC could drive them. Boy, was I surprised!

It sounds fine, not great, but plenty good enough for casual TV watching, AND the TV subwoofer out works great with my powered Velodyne.

So now I've got a nice 2.1 system to hold me over until I get something resolved with my receiver repair/replacement. Surprisingly enough, 2.1 isn't half bad.

Any who, I thought that was pretty cute and worth sharing.
EricV
 
Gotta love those Kuro sets.

Ya, I've actually been surprised how well it has worked in a pinch... enough to make the wife raise an eyebrow about why we spend all that money on a fancy receiver... uh oh! :no: I told her it's the speakers, and the illusion with the sub, they cover a multitude of sins. Hah! :nono:

Update: Pioneer rep contacted me directly and said after speaking with the local service center, my unit does indeed have a bad main controller board, which is basically on infinite back order.

So... they are sending me a new unit!!!! YES! :yes: That has renewed my faith a bit in Pioneer! :banana:

When I asked what model they would be sending, they couldn't guarantee it, but that they would "most likely replace an SC-67 with an SC-87.

I don't know much about the SC-87 reputation, or how it compares in reality to the SC-67 (Anyone? Anyone? ? Bueller?) but at least it will be a generation newer, and maybe doesn't have the same board problem. I think the SC-87 even has ATMOS. Can't wait. I'll let you know what happens next.

EricV
 
There is a temporary fix for the UE22 if the OP still has his Pio SC-67

From another forum (if that is ok here?)
http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/155478/pioneer-vsx-1121-with-ue22-error/p1

May not last very long...ymmv...

Thanks Erik, I am the OP, and I think you missed my last post, I don't have the unit, it is at the repair center, and they are sending me a new unit.

If I had been denied a warranty claim, I would have gladly tried the heat gun trick rather than chucking it in the waste bin.

I guess this is one of the bad things about SMT (surface mount technology) chips, and thin, cheap boards that sit horizontally over the chassis and collect heat as the unit runs.

It's actually got me thinking of modifying my audio rack to have an exhaust fan directly behind the next receiver. Maybe get one of the 5 inch PC case fans, and rig up a little 12volt brick to power it. Some of them have variable speed and are very quiet.

Anyone else try similar cooling experiments?
EricV
 
Anyone else try similar cooling experiments?
EricV

I have not, but my processor is not in a closed rack/cabinet nor is it stacked. It is in a cabinet/rack, but has its own shelf with a couple inches either side, probably 8 or more inches above, with open front and open back on the cabinet/rack.
 
Good News!

Turns out Pioneer did in fact choose to replace my SC-67 due to lack of available HDMI board with the newer model SC-87

I picked up my replacement SC-87 today from the service center! Brand new, in box, doesn't appear to be a refurb, manufactured in March of this year. Woot! :thmbsp:

Now, I just have to find a quiet evening to hook everything back up.

So excited! Thanks Pioneer! :banana:

EricV
 
Update:

New replacement SC-87 installed. Install was a breeze.

I ran through the new MCACC setup, which is much improved. It even detected some speakers out of phase (Hey, it's hard to see those stripes in the dark behind the rack).

Over all impression is that the amplifier section is plenty capable, yet, for some reason, it defaults to a very low gain. When watching an action movie on disc you can get it to crank at what you would assume is a normal position on the volume knob, like -40db with plenty of volume for casual watching, but when watching regular cable TV, the volume has to be cranked way up to like -25 just to hear people talk, weird... My cable set top box has not changed.

My Kuro 60" plasma has an 18WPC amp that I was using while waiting for this, and it rivals this supposed 190WPC amp for volume, even though it didn't have the dynamic range. I don't get it...

Other than that, as for the dolby and imaging for movies, it's great, and what you would expect from a pioneer elite. The remote is slightly improved, and they even added a section for my Roku. Cool!

If anyone has any thoughts on the gain or volume default (I really haven't changed much other than running MCAAC) let me know,

Thanks!
EricV
 
Worthy of note:

I got to thinking about heat, especially after the post about using a heat gun to refresh some of the wave soldering on bad boards.

So, I got one of those 120mm USB cooling fans with the digital control pad and thermostatic probe for my A/V cabinet. It can control up to 4 fans.

My rack has a glass door, but I've never closed it while the equipment is on.

I installed the 120mm fan into the factory hole in the top of the cabinet (meant for lighting, which I removed long ago to let heat out)

The temp probe read 120 deg f steady and for laughs I closed the door and I let it get up to 125Deg f before I chickened out. I opened the door and it dropped to 114 deg f.

I decided I'd like to do better. So I ordered 2 more 120mm fans. The kind with rubber pads meant to sit right on top of your receiver.

The 2 fans came in, I put them directly on top of the slotted grate on the Sc-87 and plugged them into the thermostat.

The temp probe is hanging in the air about 1 inch over the receiver between the 2 fans, not in the air stream.

Now, with all 3 fans going (and they are very quiet, low speed jobs) I can close the door and get a max temp of 91Deg F. with it cranking for hours and it drops to about 83 deg with the door open.

That should help lengthen the life of the new receiver I would think by quite a bit. Only time will tell.

I don't know if this section of the forum is slow, or anyone reads this stuff or cares, but hopefully this additional info helps someone...
EricV
 
Worthy of note:

I got to thinking about heat, especially after the post about using a heat gun to refresh some of the wave soldering on bad boards.

So, I got one of those 120mm USB cooling fans with the digital control pad and thermostatic probe for my A/V cabinet. It can control up to 4 fans.

My rack has a glass door, but I've never closed it while the equipment is on.

I installed the 120mm fan into the factory hole in the top of the cabinet (meant for lighting, which I removed long ago to let heat out)

The temp probe read 120 deg f steady and for laughs I closed the door and I let it get up to 125Deg f before I chickened out. I opened the door and it dropped to 114 deg f.

I decided I'd like to do better. So I ordered 2 more 120mm fans. The kind with rubber pads meant to sit right on top of your receiver.

The 2 fans came in, I put them directly on top of the slotted grate on the Sc-87 and plugged them into the thermostat.

The temp probe is hanging in the air about 1 inch over the receiver between the 2 fans, not in the air stream.

Now, with all 3 fans going (and they are very quiet, low speed jobs) I can close the door and get a max temp of 91Deg F. with it cranking for hours and it drops to about 83 deg with the door open.

That should help lengthen the life of the new receiver I would think by quite a bit. Only time will tell.

I don't know if this section of the forum is slow, or anyone reads this stuff or cares, but hopefully this additional info helps someone...
EricV
There isn't a lot of activity in this sub forum but folks do read this. You can get a better idea of what is going on via the number of views but most of it comes from lurkers, it would seem.

I did look at those 120mm usb powered fans thinking I might use one to blow across the top of my receiver to move the hot air away but I really don't have a decent place to stick it. My rack is open all the way around and I have about 4" between the top of the receiver and the shelf above. Concerned about heat, I actually moved the shelf down twice to get to 4" space. Never has shut down, however, and on the weekends I leave it on for roughly 16 hours straight.

Murray
 
My Kuro 60" plasma has an 18WPC amp that I was using while waiting for this, and it rivals this supposed 190WPC amp for volume, even though it didn't have the dynamic range. I don't get it...

Other than that, as for the dolby and imaging for movies, it's great, and what you would expect from a pioneer elite. The remote is slightly improved, and they even added a section for my Roku. Cool!

If anyone has any thoughts on the gain or volume default (I really haven't changed much other than running MCAAC) let me know,

Thanks!
EricV

Takes 10 times the power to play twice as loud all other things equal. So, unless you're really cranking up the receiver it probably won't seem a whole lot different.

Don't know whether you're mainly into vintage gear, but it seems many who are have this ingrained hesitancy to turn the volume knob more than a few clicks (so to speak). HT receiver/processor generally you need to turn the knob a lot more. If you don't it seems like there's not much there. Just different way of doing things.

What do you mean by gain or volume default? The volume setting it powers up at?
 
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Takes 10 times the power to play twice as loud all other things equal. So, unless you're really cranking up the receiver it probably won't seem a whole lot different.

Don't know whether you're mainly into vintage gear, but it seems many who are have this ingrained hesitancy to turn the volume knob more than a few clicks (so to speak). HT receiver/processor generally you need to turn the knob a lot more. If you don't it seems like there's not much there. Just different way of doing things.

What do you mean by gain or volume default? The volume setting it powers up at?

By gain, I guess I mean the response curve of the volume pot. I get almost zero audio from full off on the knob almost up to -50 before you can hear anything at all. Yes, I know how to set the default power-on volume level in setup, which I set to -45 for mine.

What I was wondering, is in speaker setup, if you pick small/large etc for speaker size, if it not only sets the low frequency cut off, but also makes some assumptions about speaker efficiency?

I was thinking about doing some manual over-rides in speaker setup and just bumping all the speakers up by the same amount, leaving the hi/low spread that MCAAC chose, but there by adding gain to the full set of speakers evenly, if that makes any sense?

A simple example -
If MCAAC chose to put my 2 fronts a 0, but my center at -5, then my over ride would be to put my 2 fronts at +5, and my center at 0. Etc. and the rest of my surrounds treated the same way as well.

EricV
 
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