Decware Question

I've been looking for a SET amp for my main system, and after a lot of research I'm fairly set on Decware. I'm down to choosing between two of their amps.

The two that are in my price-range are the Rachael (SE341.4) and the Zen Triode (SE84CKC). The Rachael looks like it would provide a bit more oomph, but it's twice as expensive once you add up all the options -- doable, but would stretch the budget.

The 2-watt Zen Triode is attractive in the long-term, since I could eventually buy a matching unit to run as monoblocks once I could comfortably afford it. Seems more versatile in terms of building a system over time.

Any opinions on these amps? Strictly in terms of sound, is one preferable to the other? Which way would you go?

Oh almost forgot, these would be feeding my Klipsch Cornwalls.

Thanks for your help!

Should be a match made in heaven.

I have long had an SE-84B. It's a decent sounding little amplifier but not powerful enough IME/IMO for full-range use. Mine strained with "little girl with guitar" music at what I'd consider only moderately high volume levels on Klipsch Cornwalls (1974 production). I recently tried it on the Duplexes -- it sounded quite good, but also sounded strained on the Duplexes with Sarah MacLachlan, just as it had on the Cornies years before. The Duplexes are probably about 2 dB more sensitive than the Cornies were.

The SE-84B (at least) does a little better with the SV83 outputs than it does with 'real' EL84s (FWIW).


DSC_0339 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

I guess that's my way of saying you might want to consider the EL34-based amp unless you're planning to bi or tri amp. The SE-84 would be a fine MR/HF amp for almost any system, I'd opine (and FWIW).

Thanks mhardy for the comments, really helpful, especially since you've used it with the same speaker complement more or less. Since it is a main system, I made need that extra punch. Always have loved the EL34 too.

Also appreciate your signature lines... been listening to the new album all day. But now you got me thinking about other kinds of vintage gear... may have to ditch the amp and go straight to a Vincent Black Lightning 1952! Another forum entirely.

I need to get it ('the new album', that is).

The SE-84(B, at least) is a nice sounding amplifier. I retired mine when I got a SE 2A3 amp. For me, 3.5 watts was enough, and my first 2A3 amps (Doc Bottlehead's "Paramour" monoblock kits) bettered the little Zen amp (on the Cornies, at that point) in every respect to my ears and tastes. Well, in total fairness, the SE-84B was/is dead quiet; the DHT outputs, and the brutally simple P/S and driver design of the Parmours in their original, basic configuration did generate some audible hum.

I assume that you had a preamp in the chain in front of your SE-84? or were you using it as a stand-alone integrated? Just wondering strain from such minimal wattage could be ameliorated with a pre (which these Decware amps seem built to accept)...

I had also been considering Bottlehead's in addition to the Decware, but DIY projects always seem to take forever for me... Although I must say that the new-ish Stereomour II 2A3 looks sweet. Did the Paramours prove to be a difficult build for you?

I originally used it with a succession of preamps (EICO HF-85 and a Mac C-28 spring to mind) and/or with high-output sources (i.e., modern CDPs). Also tried 6DJ8/6922/7308 as drivers besides the 6n1p. Also with the toggle in both positions.

The strain, which is not sonically pleasant, is all output, it seems to me.

The Paramours weren't hard to build, but the Bottlehead "three-D" parts layout philosophy is a little tricky from my perspective (and I've built, and repaired, lots of different stuff over the decades). In total fairness, my kids (then pretty young) did the bulk of the building of the Paramours under my fairly hands-off supervision!

Don't have much to contribute here other than to say I own an SE34I (1st version) and REALLY like it. If the newest iteration of this amp is anywhere close to the original in terms of sound, versatility, and construction it's hard to imagine you being disappointed.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

rusomon said:

Don't have much to contribute here other than to say I own an SE34I (1st version) and REALLY like it. If the newest iteration of this amp is anywhere close to the original in terms of sound, versatility, and construction it's hard to imagine you being disappointed.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

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Thanks for the feedback. Still have a lot to think about/work out, but that SE341 is now at the top of the list.

Bottlehead fan here. 2a3 power.

In 2013 I bought the Decware SE34.3.5. (I think the .3 is the model revision, and the .5 is the option package). I absolutely love it. It's my main machine, powered up and spewing tunes 24x7.

I was concerned somewhat that 6 big watts wouldn't be enough, but I rotate through speakers ranging from 86dB - 93dB sensitivity without feeling shortchanged. Mind you, 99% of my listening is at fairly low level, but when nobody's home I turn it up a good bit.

As far as the options go, I think the two volume knobs is a hugely useful feature. First for dialing in volume, but also, tubes don't all necessarily "tire" at the same rate, so when a matched set gets some miles on them one side can benefit from a little boost to keep it in balance with the still strong side.

I got the 4 inputs because I had never owned a preamp at the time, but now with a proper preamp three of them are redundant. I also got the RCA out option which I've used for an outboard sub, and liked it, but I'm not using at the moment. A preamp you might already have could have extra outputs that you can use for that.

I think now there are a couple more options, like tube upgrades and higher-end capacitors. I'd consider the caps, as they're not really supposed to be user servicable, but Decware ships with decent stock tubes which will last plenty long enough for you to learn what they sound like and give time to research, learn and try others when you're ready.

Oh - one last thing about preamps... the one I have is active, that is, it can properly boost an input signal instead of just passively attenuate. The Decware SE34 needs about 2.5V input to get maximum output. This made a huge improvement in my sound considering one of my sources output 0.775V and another topped out at 1V.

Good luck. Let us know what you eventually choose.

There are Bottlehead 2a3 Paramour mono blocks on the bay with a make offer.

Probably both could be bought for $500 or less. You often see these owner built Bottleheads for much less than their kit price. Audiogon is another good place to look. Since they're simple point to point wiring with few parts they are easy to repair or upgrade.

The 2a3 is a direct headed triode and favored by many. I have the Paramours which are very detailed, refined and a great finesse amp.

A lot of sonic bang for five hunnert smackers, I'd opine...

paramours 112413 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

For use with any SPEAKERS you need amp with at least 300B. Anything smaller is only useful as headphone amplifier. Even if your speakers are 100dB/W efficient, you still need at least 5W to avoid clipping at peaks. This kind of power is 300B range (forget inflated advertised numbers). Also price should be the LAST consideration when buying SET amplifier - if funds are limited you will do much better with solid state technology.

Plenty of 2a3 users will disagree.

I am a big Decware fan. I don't have any of the amps just CSP2, CSP3 line stages and ZP3 phono stage. They all sound great. I bet a set of cornwalls would sound great with one of Steve's SET amps. Lifetime guarantee too!

If I were to go Zen Triode amplifier I would go all the way to the select version.

I want a ZMA myself

dolphyisgod said:

I've been looking for a SET amp for my main system, and after a lot of research I'm fairly set on Decware. I'm down to choosing between two of their amps.

The two that are in my price-range are the Rachael (SE341.4) and the Zen Triode (SE84CKC). The Rachael looks like it would provide a bit more oomph, but it's twice as expensive once you add up all the options -- doable, but would stretch the budget.

The 2-watt Zen Triode is attractive in the long-term, since I could eventually buy a matching unit to run as monoblocks once I could comfortably afford it. Seems more versatile in terms of building a system over time.

Any opinions on these amps? Strictly in terms of sound, is one preferable to the other? Which way would you go?

Oh almost forgot, these would be feeding my Klipsch Cornwalls.

Thanks for your help!

Click to expand...

I have no experience with Decware, but, if you get a SE pentode el84 amp you double the power. I have tried many SEP EL84 amps, like Magnavox, Zenith, RCA, EICO, etc., and I found the best sounding to be the RHEL84 amps. I also tried running two SEP stereo el84 amps (identically made SE EL84 RCA amps) set up as monoblocks and while they sounded good it was definitely better sounding as a stereo amp with the single el84 powering each channel. In other words hooking up a stereo amp to a mono configuration does slightly degrade the sound. Happy listening, Dak

for_p1 said:

For use with any SPEAKERS you need amp with at least 300B. Anything smaller is only useful as headphone amplifier. Even if your speakers are 100dB/W efficient, you still need at least 5W to avoid clipping at peaks. This kind of power is 300B range (forget inflated advertised numbers). Also price should be the LAST consideration when buying SET amplifier - if funds are limited you will do much better with solid state technology.

Click to expand...

Wrong

SE EL84 in its engineer-intended pentode mode is fine... but it loses a bit of immediacy compared to SE EL84 wired as triode. Just my hardly-humble opinion, of course.

I received my DecWare SE84UFO today, I have a couple hours on it. It sounds nice, but my "Inspire 45 FireBottle Amp by Dennis Had" sounds nicer to me. I guess I like the sound of vintage RCA type 45 Globe Shape tubes. Once I get 200 hours on the DecWare I will do some tube rolling. The SE84UFO is more than loud enough with 96db SPL Klipsch speakers in my bedroom. The SE84UFO took 5 1/2 weeks to arrive from date of order, very well packed. I feel the SE84UFO is a good bargain.