Amp for Subs?

I am looking for a quality two channel amp to power my subs in my system. I have four BC 15BG100 15 inch woofers rated at 1000 watts / 8 ohms that I will be hooking up in parallel on each side, taking them down to 4 ohms. I will be using these with a DQ-LP1, with the high pass going to a tube amp and laScalas and the low pass going to this amp and my subs.
This amp will be used primarily with the subs but may find time driving Infinity Kappa 8s or 9s if needed.

Terry Dewick has my MX110Z and when we talked he told me to find a good used Mcintoch that has a high dampening factor like the MC7200.
I found this one and wanted some opinions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/McIntosh-MC...pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19ebbfd5a8

You need professional power amplifiers like QSC, Carver etc. They are excellent for bass. If you do not like that idea, next real step up will be something like Bryston 14BSST2.

I am very fussy about my bass/low end whatever you want to call it.....

I have tried MC2205, MC352, MC452 on my subs, and I think the lower damping factor of the Autoformer McIntosh amps are very sensitive to the type bass speakers they like to drive.....

In my case I have a pair of L'acoustics SB115 single 15" subs, and they seem to like amps with very high damping factors....
The #1 amp for my subs is the Crown Macro-tech 5002VZ, hands down. QSC Powerlight 4.0 was second....in the case of all of the mentioned McIntosh amps, the performance was OK, but really for someone as fussy as me, not good enough.....
I was considering taking a loan and buying a pair of MC601's for the subs, which is why I tried the MC452 on my subs, but I tell ya, it really pays to try a few things out.....because in my case the McIntosh line of amps, while stunning on the Mid/high's, are not for my subs...
I feel the 601's wouldn't be any better despite the extra power.....same damping factor as the MC452....

So here I am, the Crown Stays, as it clearly does the best job....

However, that is not to say a MC452 couldn't drive some subs very well.....and I suspect the sub-woofers that McIntosh use in their speakers could be a different story than my ones......

Summary, try many things out if you can!! Beware of fan noise in pro-amps....QSC's have noisy fans (you can retrofit quieter fans), the Crown Macro-tech 5002 has pretty quiet fans, I have a switch on mine so I can turn them off for low level listening....
At usual listening levels, above 70dbA you can't hear the fans anyway, so its never really an issue.......

Hope that helps.....

EDIT: Yes the MC7200 would be one of the best choices because they are direct coupled with a high damping factor.......The damping factor of the Crown I use is >1000 and the QSC Powerlight 4.0 is >500.....Just to give you an idea....

Thanks for all the info. I just looked at the crown you recommended and it is way out of my budget range. I was hoping to stay below $1000.

What about the Crown XLS series? An audio enthusiast friend of mine loves them. They can put out some serious power and I believe are well within your budget.

MORTIS said:

What about the Crown XLS series? An audio enthusiast friend of mine loves them. They can put out some serious power and I believe are well within your budget.

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That's actually not a bad idea......:thmbsp:

Although having said that, I can't really comment on the sound of them, I am not sure if it would give the same performance as a Macro-tech 5002VZ, there is a reason the Macro-tech commands a higher price....
But, value for money the XLS could be just thing.....

The xls doesn't have the damping factor and much higher distortion. But I am sure you should be able to find a good 5000 out there some where. But remember those big woofers loose a lot of linearity at max levels in the pro lines. 3.5 to over 4 db. Where at -10 db they have lost less than .6 db. So if the woofer cant develop the level you need by 250 watts, you need to think of another solution.

Its compression that horn speaker lovers say they are free of at strong levels. If it were only so. A Klipschorn has collapsed close to 4 db at 100 watts, too. So what's the answer. Speaker manufacturers don't talk about it in public. Lets see a Mac 2k rated at 89 db at 200 watts, -10 db, gives you 112 db*, and that should be plenty. But not for horn guys. But a corner horn only puts out 114db at -10 and only down to 30 HZ while the Mac will go down another octave .

My choice would be JBL, but how do you put JBL line arrays with subs in a room at home. Current movie sound tracks almost demand that you do.

* Has anyone heard 2K run with 2301 amps or a pair of 3500's. One of these days I'd like to hear a pair of 3500's driving todays speakers. 500 watts should be plenty. That's one item on my bucket list.

Good information there.....

You need to be careful getting into the Macro-tech 5000/5002 amps....

They are heavy like McIntosh's, weighing in at 80lbs.....

You must get a 5002VZ, NOT a 5000VZ, because the axillary transformer, for some reason (not sure why) are noisier than the 5002.....so at idle, the 5000 has a noticeable hum/buzz to it which the 5002 does not.....there are a few other minor differences too, but they essentially sound the same....

There are a few things to check on them regarding the VZ circuit, I have a fault diagnoses sheet that we've made up, so there isn't much that can go wrong with them that I don't know about....

They are like McIntosh's in that they must ship in the Crown shipping carton because of the weight....

They have a 32amp twist lock power plug on them, I think you guys call them Hubbles? So you need to have a way of plugging the amp in....

Other than that, they make an insane combination with a McIntosh amp as per my system....

Well, let's get real here for a second. I've heard subs driven by MC2100s that I thought sounded simply fantastic. If you want fast, articulate, and accurate, then I suggest you look more closely at the design of the enclosure than the design of the power amplifier.

I currently use a pair of 18" woofers (each with 4 inch dual voice coils and rated at 600 Watts RMS), each in 8 cubic feet vented enclosures in my office system. The enclosures are tuned to 30Hz and I designed them so that I can easily remove the ports and swap to longer ports that drop tuning to 26Hz (large rectangular ports with 50 sq inch openings). I've never needed to do that. Presently, I run them with a Crown MT2400 but I've run them with a McIntosh MC2300 for the past five years. Both sound and perform excellent - even though the Crown is more than double the power of the Mc.

In my home theater, I use a single 12" woofer (with 4 inch dual voice coils and rated at 1,000 Watts RMS) in a 5 cubic foot vented enclosure tuned to 20Hz. It is driven by an NAD218THX. Obviously, it plays a half octave lower than the office enclosures and does so with ease. I've heard home theater subs with much larger drivers that didn't sound nearly as good as this one.

Each of my sub systems sounds excellent. Neither is equalized. If you're building a smaller sealed enclosure, not only will you give up efficiency, but you will also need to add a ton of equalization to realize a flat response and that means POWER.

kev - Just so that you know, one just doesn't go about plugging MacroTech 2400s, 3600s, or 5000s into the mains over here in the USA. The MT2400s require a 20A outlet, the 3600 and 5000 a 30A outlet and each of the amplifier is outfitted with plug specific to that. Remember, we got shortchanged on voltage here at only 120VAC.

Robmag - Keep in mind that should you choose to power your subs with a BIG power amplifier, it will likely require a dedicated outlet to supply power to it.

One final thought, I just looked at the T/S parameters of your woofers. These are more suited for professional sound reinforcement than home audio or home theater.

damacman said:

kev - Just so that you know, one just doesn't go about plugging MacroTech 2400s, 3600s, or 5000s into the mains over here in the USA. The MT2400s require a 20A outlet, the 3600 and 5000 a 30A outlet and each of the amplifier is outfitted with plug specific to that. Remember, we got shortchanged on voltage here at only 120VAC.

Robmag - Keep in mind that should you choose to power your subs with a BIG power amplifier, it will likely require a dedicated outlet to supply power to it.

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The 5002VZ still has a 15amp plug for NZ, so yeah, its a beast......:thmbsp:

I have a 30amp UPS which I run my system off, it actually has said 15amp outlet on the back so it works out quite well.....

30A x 240VAC . . . wow . . .

Standard outlets in homes here are 15A, with 20A service typically found only in kitchens, garages, and for the washing machine. Even still, only the washing machine outlet will be a true 20A outlet with a single receptacle in the box.

In many cases, the garage and/or exterior outlets are tied off of the GFCI outlets of the kitchen or bathrooms. I have NO idea why they decided to do that . . .

damacman said:

I have NO idea why they decided to do that . . .

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Because builders in North America are cheap mofos

damacman said:

30A x 240VAC . . . wow . . .

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Oh not thats not standard, I had that put in.........

Standard outlets here are 10amp........

Then you have a 30amp for the water heater and another 30amp for the stove......

That would explain the nails . . .

Thanks for the info. My biggest problem will be power. The best I can do is dedicate a 15 amp circuit for the amo driving the subs. So I guess this really limits my options. I was hoping to find a good used Macro tech 2402. Any recommendations based on my power source? I can not see driving these units that hard, my main goal is to get really tight controlled bass to listen to music. I can never see going over 100 to 105db. Realistically 85db will be the limit for me.

Robmag said:

Thanks for the info. My biggest problem will be power. The best I can do is dedicate a 15 amp circuit for the amo driving the subs. So I guess this really limits my options. I was hoping to find a good used Macro tech 2402. Any recommendations based on my power source? I can not see driving these units that hard, my main goal is to get really tight controlled bass to listen to music. I can never see going over 100 to 105db. Realistically 85db will be the limit for me.

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and a good choice for your tight bass the Macro-tech 2402 would be, you just have to be aware of the fan noise on those ones....I think the fans run a bit faster at idle than the bigger 5002VZ....

The type of bass sound you are describing with the speakers you have calls for a Macro-tech......in my opinion anyway.....

(4) 15s? 85dB? Just flipping the amp to ON will exceed that.

Hmmm . . .