That much difference in Sony PS-X75 & Technics SL-1200

I have an SL1200 that has been fully modded by KAB and it easily outperforms my VPI HW-19 MK3 with SME Series III. Just sounds better, works better, and is built better.

I've seen these assertions in ref to upper end turntables at KAB's site, and other than owner satisfaction/dissatisfaction for whatever teason, dunno quite what to think as a very satisfied owner/user of a VPI HW19-MkIII with the Phoenix Engineering feedback controller system and Eminent Technology ET-2 pneumatic arm.

FWIW, owned a 1600 Mk-II and let it go to a fellow A-K member, opting to keep a PS-X70 and Pioneer PL-1000 instead. The helicoid VTA arm pillar on these Technics are imo exceptional at the price level, the Sony TTs would have been better with them instead of what they used.

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That and a tonearm rewire appear to be the top two changes most 1200 owners recommend (I am an owner)

I am also an owner. With most TTs many things can in reality be done to improve the SQ. It´s not so they are finished from the factory, they just have a certain performance.
But if we shall not do anything more tricky with the 1200, the fluid damping is mandatory IMO.
 
The rewire will improve the sound. You can buy the same wiring that comes on $1-$2k arms for $100-$200 but it is a tricky job and the $1-2k arms will still have advantages in other area's.

The kab fluid damper will help with warped records and absorbing vibrations and skipping, not really an s.q. improvement.

An aftermarket metal platter mat, either oyaide or sds will yield nice results as well and is really easy to install, but probably require a thinner aftermarket non metal mat as well.

I don´t agree on this, the fluid damping is certainly a great SQ improvement IME.
 
I don´t agree on this, the fluid damping is certainly a great SQ improvement IME.

If your records have warps in them and/or your turntable sits fairly close to your speakers, which probably is most of us, then a kab fluid damper will improve the s.q. allot.

However it is not an across the board improvement like a rewire would be and for those fortunate enough to have perfectly flat records and/or their TT far away from their speakers it would be a subtle improvement.

This is not to say a rewire is the answer. Unless you d.i.y. it will probably be $200-$300 with labor if not more which brings up the argument of just putting a whole new arm in or building your own sp25 table, buying or making your own plinth and tonearm.
 
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If your records have warps in them and/or your turntable sits fairly close to your speakers, which probably is most of us, then a kab fluid damper will improve the s.q. allot.

However it is not an across the board improvement like a rewire would be and for those fortunate enough to have perfectly flat records and/or their TT far away from their speakers it would be a subtle improvement.

This is not to say a rewire is the answer. Unless you d.i.y. it will probably be $200-$300 with labor if not more which brings up the argument of just putting a whole new arm in or building your own sp25 table, buying or making your own plinth and tonearm.

Strongly disagree here... Fluid Damping has far greater benefits than most people realise...

The low frequency resonance is present on all arms (physics is physics) - but a damped arm (whether achieved electronically, magnetically or by fluid or other means), will control that resonance resulting in:

1) A reduction in Wow & Flutter - making things like piano sound a lot more real, and in general improving the sound across the range.
This is because the reduction in LF resonance, means that we have reduced "needle scrubbing" : as the arm rises and falls or sways left and right - vertical or horizontal resonance - the needles speed in the groove is being marginally increased or decreased, this is indistinguishable from platter speed stability issues, as it in fact amounts to speed stability issues!

2) Reduction in intermodulation distortions generated by the interaction of the low frequency fundamental and its resonances with the frequencies of the actual signal (music) being reproduced - this is a subtle but noticeably improvement in detail, the music itself coming from a clearer place as the "noise" around it is reduced.

3) Improved tracking - this is self evident when you think about it - the arm and therefore the needle is no longer moving about as much at low frequency - so it is more stable, and it is easier for the needle to maintain proper contact with the groove wall.
Along with improved tracking comes reduced sibilance, reduced inner groove distortion, etc...

Excess damping will however increase many of the same things that light damping reduces - as the arm is impeded from properly following the groove - resulting in increased needle scrubbing and reduced tracking performance.

Getting damping spot on can be tricky, as there are contributions to arm damping made by the bearings and their lubrication, the needles own suspension has damping built in, and then there is external damping such as fluid dampers.

Should Luckydog choose to join the conversation he may well provide more details on how to measure and calculate optimal damping...

My own experience with adjustable damping on a JVC QL-Y5F turntable shows that it is best approached lightly, but that once you properly (ie to the correct amount) damp a cartridge/arm combo, it definitely sounds better - with no other change to the setup.

In my opinion the single greatest improvement available to the SL1200mk2 (and its brethren) is via the installation of a fluid damper...
Re-Wiring, improved power, improved bearings will all provide improvements as well, but each of these is very subtle compared to the gains to be had from FD.... and the damper is one of the cheapest mods available!

All the aspects I mention are relatively easily measured and demonstrated - there are even a number of threads talking about DIY fluid dampers for all those TT's where an FD is not available... (paper clip, olive oil, jar lid, some tape and a bit of plastic cut up - the results are quite remarkable!)

Yes the electronically damped TT's provide the same magic, but in a more finicky and potentially troublesome way as they age.... and the TOTL JVC, Denon, Sony and Yamaha's all had electronic damping. (yes Yamaha... PX1)
Most of their competitors also had damping, though it was achieved with oil or magnets instead.

bye for now

David
 
So, to sum up the thread so far - if the OP carries out some serious modifications on his Technics then it might be a bit better than the Sony he already has.

Personally, I'd use the funds to buy more records...
 
If your records have warps in them and/or your turntable sits fairly close to your speakers, which probably is most of us, then a kab fluid damper will improve the s.q. allot .

However it is not an across the board improvement like a rewire would be and for those fortunate enough to have perfectly flat records and/or their TT far away from their speakers it would be a subtle improvement.

This is not to say a rewire is the answer. Unless you d.i.y. it will probably be $200-$300 with labor if not more which brings up the argument of just putting a whole new arm in or building your own sp25 table, buying or making your own plinth and tonearm.

I must also disagree.

I had no issues with external vibrations with my TD 160 set up. I have very few warped records so that was never a concern.

Adding fluid damping to my SME tonearm was a indeed a major improvement.

Dlaloum has all the technical words covered ... I will jsut say that everything sounds better with it than without. Across the board improvement - yes.

Not gonna predict the exact same results for the KAB/Technics fluid damper but I would certainly expect to hear improvements to SQ if I put one on my SL 1600 mk II.
 
You can say what you want about the fluid damper. I had one on my sl-1200 for months. The only thing it really improved was the tracking.
 
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