Funky54
Super Member
Ok. I don't care to argue or start some clip board, calculator science debate. Here are the facts.
This is not about amps, speakers or interconnects. I'm isolating this conversation to tables, carts and pre-amps.
1) Once you have a decent table (I'll define decent in a sec) put your money into pre-amps and carts. Way bigger bang for your buck both for sound quality and money.
2) Not all preamps at the same price point are the same.
3) Not all carts at the same price point are the same.
4) Synergy of components is important but don't kid yourself, good stuff together is better than bad stuff regardless of specs or price point.
Preamps:
I thought a bunch of money for that silly black box was stupid (preamp) so on-line guys said these $50.00 pre amps where all I needed.... So I waisted $50 after $50 trying 3-4 to learn that they sucked. Don't do that. Your kidding your self if you think they are "good enough". I tried many solid and a few tube. Did shoot outs with multiple table and several systems. Forget synergy here. A good one sounds great on all systems, a cheap one sounds cheap on all systems. I like Yaqin tube preamps. Big Bang for your buck. Much wider sound stage, tightened bottom crisper highs, more detail. I'd rather have a garage sale table and an expensive pre any day.
Tables:
Vintage VS New? Argument new- better science, materials, R&D, old ones are worn out and ready to blow up, money ends up the same after repairs or getting it up to par... Vintage- more for your money, built when vinyl was king and people cared....
Truth, doesn't matter. Good is good. My $25.00 Pioneer PL 530 (automatic direct drive by the way) sounds as good as the most expensive I've compared it too, (RP 9). The Pioneer is used, unserviced, and vintage. My new Roksan Radius 5.2, my buddies 1200 or his ikura Music Hall all sounded good... But the only subpar one was a RP3 that just wasn't as good as the others. With same cart, and pre all sounded good with subtle differences.
Carts:
Carts matter. They don't have to be expensive. And an expensive one doesn't always sound great. If my budget for cart, table and pre was $1000. I'd buy a used $200-300 table and put the rest into the cart and pre. I now have compared a Dynovector 10x5, Roksan Corus Black, Shure m97xe, ortofon 2m blue. Here is where your personality is. Cart and Pre will have more to do with the quality of your sound then the table (if your table is "decent")
So that's my journey. I read some of these facts as I searched. But I also read the oppisite. That tables and tone arms were the most important... I don't think so anymore. Sure they effect sound, but very little. Once you have a quality cart and pre, that work good together.. Any decent table gets you good sound.
Added due to comments:
Roksan Radius 5.2 is a $3000 MSRP table with arm, and is compared to gyro and oracle often on many reviews.
System 1- turntable > Yaqin MS-12b (JJ & vintage RCA's) > Outlaw Audio 950 (seperates in total true analog bypass) > Outlaw755 Amp (200 watt per channel)> tri wired (12guage OX free 11' long per side) > Alon IV (these guys have no problem hitting at 17Hz)
System 2 - Turntable > Aric Audio tube pre > Yamaha Receiver (new flagship receiver don't remember model number) > Monitor Audio silver series towers.
Tables with average street price
-Roksan Radius 5.2, ($2995.00)
-Music Hall Ikura ($1200)
-RP 6
-RP 9
-Tech. 1200 ($250/$400)
-Pioneer PL 530 used (350-$400)
Carts in the mix with street price
-Shure M97Xe ($70.00)
-Roksan corus ($500 - $900)
-Dynavector 10 x 5 ($400-$700)
-Ortofon 2M Blue ($225.00)
Preamps
- A butt load of $50.00 (who cares)
- Cambridge ...570? ($200)
- Aric Audio Tube ($200-$300)
- Yaqin MS12b
- Audio Research Tube ($1200) don't remember the model number
Auxiliary Speakers
B&M Towers don't know model
Wilsons.. Dual 8's with tweets, towers don't know model and DONT want to know price, like $12,000 or something.
This is not about amps, speakers or interconnects. I'm isolating this conversation to tables, carts and pre-amps.
1) Once you have a decent table (I'll define decent in a sec) put your money into pre-amps and carts. Way bigger bang for your buck both for sound quality and money.
2) Not all preamps at the same price point are the same.
3) Not all carts at the same price point are the same.
4) Synergy of components is important but don't kid yourself, good stuff together is better than bad stuff regardless of specs or price point.
Preamps:
I thought a bunch of money for that silly black box was stupid (preamp) so on-line guys said these $50.00 pre amps where all I needed.... So I waisted $50 after $50 trying 3-4 to learn that they sucked. Don't do that. Your kidding your self if you think they are "good enough". I tried many solid and a few tube. Did shoot outs with multiple table and several systems. Forget synergy here. A good one sounds great on all systems, a cheap one sounds cheap on all systems. I like Yaqin tube preamps. Big Bang for your buck. Much wider sound stage, tightened bottom crisper highs, more detail. I'd rather have a garage sale table and an expensive pre any day.
Tables:
Vintage VS New? Argument new- better science, materials, R&D, old ones are worn out and ready to blow up, money ends up the same after repairs or getting it up to par... Vintage- more for your money, built when vinyl was king and people cared....
Truth, doesn't matter. Good is good. My $25.00 Pioneer PL 530 (automatic direct drive by the way) sounds as good as the most expensive I've compared it too, (RP 9). The Pioneer is used, unserviced, and vintage. My new Roksan Radius 5.2, my buddies 1200 or his ikura Music Hall all sounded good... But the only subpar one was a RP3 that just wasn't as good as the others. With same cart, and pre all sounded good with subtle differences.
Carts:
Carts matter. They don't have to be expensive. And an expensive one doesn't always sound great. If my budget for cart, table and pre was $1000. I'd buy a used $200-300 table and put the rest into the cart and pre. I now have compared a Dynovector 10x5, Roksan Corus Black, Shure m97xe, ortofon 2m blue. Here is where your personality is. Cart and Pre will have more to do with the quality of your sound then the table (if your table is "decent")
So that's my journey. I read some of these facts as I searched. But I also read the oppisite. That tables and tone arms were the most important... I don't think so anymore. Sure they effect sound, but very little. Once you have a quality cart and pre, that work good together.. Any decent table gets you good sound.
Added due to comments:
Roksan Radius 5.2 is a $3000 MSRP table with arm, and is compared to gyro and oracle often on many reviews.
System 1- turntable > Yaqin MS-12b (JJ & vintage RCA's) > Outlaw Audio 950 (seperates in total true analog bypass) > Outlaw755 Amp (200 watt per channel)> tri wired (12guage OX free 11' long per side) > Alon IV (these guys have no problem hitting at 17Hz)
System 2 - Turntable > Aric Audio tube pre > Yamaha Receiver (new flagship receiver don't remember model number) > Monitor Audio silver series towers.
Tables with average street price
-Roksan Radius 5.2, ($2995.00)
-Music Hall Ikura ($1200)
-RP 6
-RP 9
-Tech. 1200 ($250/$400)
-Pioneer PL 530 used (350-$400)
Carts in the mix with street price
-Shure M97Xe ($70.00)
-Roksan corus ($500 - $900)
-Dynavector 10 x 5 ($400-$700)
-Ortofon 2M Blue ($225.00)
Preamps
- A butt load of $50.00 (who cares)
- Cambridge ...570? ($200)
- Aric Audio Tube ($200-$300)
- Yaqin MS12b
- Audio Research Tube ($1200) don't remember the model number
Auxiliary Speakers
B&M Towers don't know model
Wilsons.. Dual 8's with tweets, towers don't know model and DONT want to know price, like $12,000 or something.
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