2m Blue Upgrade to Bronze or black?

judgegixxer

Active Member
I put a 2m Blue on my SL-1400 to replace the D3000/XSV3000. Sounds great, especially after about 40hours of use. Would an upgrade to the bronze black series be worth it? I'm thinking that upgrading the blue would be going past the capabilities of the table, hence not providing any noticeable gain in sound quality. Would I be correct in that assumption?
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i went from red to blue, really happy...people were saying the jump from red to blue is bigger than the jump from there...also i think you can "over cart" the arm which is why i'm going to stay until i upgrade my TT...
 
Curious why you want to stick with the 2M series. Lots of fish in the sea, especially at that $ level. You are aware that the Bronze and Black have different cartridge bodies than the Red/Blue, yes?
 
I had 2m Red a few years ago on Mmf-2.1 TT. Liked it so much, I jumped all the way to the 2m Black. MMF2.1 never sounded better!
 
Try a different brand with a different house sound. Variety is the spice of vinyl

I have 3 suggestions, Shure M97xe, Denon DL-110, Audio-Technica AT440MLA.

Try something totally different from your current cart. You will be rewarded with with a whole new audio perspective.
 
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I had the Red and moved to the Bronze, was a very nice move, love the Bronze and may try the Black one day but would be happy to stay with the Bronze if not.
 
Very pleased with my 2M Black. Best MM I've owned. Don't think you can go wrong going to the 2M Black. If you find it is not that big of an improvement then you will know it is beyond your current TT/TA combination.
 
I would not go to a 2M Bronze on that table and arm. At very least not without a decent adjustable phono preamp/stage. At very best it would be a very expensive lateral move on that table.
I agree with the suggestion of trying an AT440MLA or even a AT120e. I like the idea of the Shure M97xE as well.

(I run a 2M Bronze on my Denon DP47f and had to use a good phono preamp/stage to adjust the load. It sounds great, but also that is an entirely different table and arm than the one you have and the 2M Bronze is as high as I can go in the Ortofon line for my table). If I stuck a 2M Black on my Denon I would not notice any real change due to the design of the arm and table. It would be a very expensive lateral move at best).
 
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I have found out over the years that most tables will support two to three X their cost in cartridges. Not a hard fast rule, but usually applies. This assumes that the table/arm is in top condition ...

There are so many things at play, that table/arm are only a piece of the action. Mat plays a role, platter deadening (like Bed Liner under platter), arm dampening (silicone O rings moved to best location, trial and error...), rake angle - the list is long ...

On your table you have the option of changing headshells. A lot can be accomplished there alone. They range from about 7.5 grams for a stamped aluminum "basket" design to maybe 20 grams for a ceramic matrix design.

You can swap on light weight SOAR silk wrapped OCC copper wires with gold boots. OK the wires are not a big percentage improvement electrically, but they help. But what makes this important is that they are extremely flexible. They will easily double back on themselves. So no "spring" effect pushing on the back of the cart body so you can run long body carts :)

You wanna try something different? Maybe an AT 150MLX, or a Grado body with MHz stylus. Or a Nagaoka JT 555... The list is long and your table will easily support all these.

Mount them as light as you can to keep the counterweight in close as that greatly assists with arm dynamics (lever moment, inertia & acceleration). You can change the way that arm reacts and it Will support $1,000 carts if you want to go there ...
 
I went from red to blue to bronze with a noticeable improvement in SQ with my system... went from the bronze to a LOMC cart in the Benz Micro Gold, another jump in SQ for me... maybe one day I'll spend a whole lot more and move up from the Benz Gold...
 
I would not go to a 2M Bronze on that table and arm. At very least not without a decent adjustable phono preamp/stage. At very best it would be a very expensive lateral move on that table.
I agree with the suggestion of trying an AT440MLA or even a AT120e. I like the idea of the Shure M97xE as well.

(I run a 2M Bronze on my Denon DP47f and had to use a good phono preamp/stage to adjust the load. It sounds great, but also that is an entirely different table and arm than the one you have and the 2M Bronze is as high as I can go in the Ortofon line for my table). If I stuck a 2M Black on my Denon I would not notice any real change due to the design of the arm and table. It would be a very expensive lateral move at best).

Thank you, that's kind of what I was thinking. Now I have to figure out what a phono preamp would be. lol
 
I have found out over the years that most tables will support two to three X their cost in cartridges. Not a hard fast rule, but usually applies. This assumes that the table/arm is in top condition ...

There are so many things at play, that table/arm are only a piece of the action. Mat plays a role, platter deadening (like Bed Liner under platter), arm dampening (silicone O rings moved to best location, trial and error...), rake angle - the list is long ...

On your table you have the option of changing headshells. A lot can be accomplished there alone. They range from about 7.5 grams for a stamped aluminum "basket" design to maybe 20 grams for a ceramic matrix design.

You can swap on light weight SOAR silk wrapped OCC copper wires with gold boots. OK the wires are not a big percentage improvement electrically, but they help. But what makes this important is that they are extremely flexible. They will easily double back on themselves. So no "spring" effect pushing on the back of the cart body so you can run long body carts :)

You wanna try something different? Maybe an AT 150MLX, or a Grado body with MHz stylus. Or a Nagaoka JT 555... The list is long and your table will easily support all these.

Mount them as light as you can to keep the counterweight in close as that greatly assists with arm dynamics (lever moment, inertia & acceleration). You can change the way that arm reacts and it Will support $1,000 carts if you want to go there ...

Thank you for info, I would love to try all kinds of carts, stylus & headshells....it's a good thing the nearest shop to me...."The Grammaphone" is 700miles away. I find it waaaaay easier to buy toys live than over the net.
I will keep those suggestions in mind when I do walk thru the doors. I just don't want to get something that would be a definate downgrade. Especially anything priced above a blue but performing at a third to half that price range. You never know what some sales guy will try to pawn off on me. I'd be a sitting duck. I only know enough about this to get myself into trouble at this point.
 
I'm still recovering from my dismay over the fact that the old Shure M100E that I nearly tossed, sounds light years better than the new M97xE I bought. Waste of money! Maybe capacitance loading, but I am skeptical!

Are any of these Ortofons happy around 400pf?
 
Should check with dlalium (?) - if memory serves, he knows the appropriate loading ... Almost all Shure's want something other than 47K and 200 pf... Some will want as much as 62K. Get the resistive load in the ball park and fine tune with cap ...

Saying that, the M97 body should be good. the stylus leaves something to be desired. A JICO SAS or even a hyper will pick up the M97 nicely. The SAS so much that a loading change may not be needed :)

Regarding headshells - get some of different weights. See how the arm responds. SOAR wires are likely on available on line ... Well worth the trouble.

You can tune your arm to act less massive, or more so. Some HOMC's want a massive arm to work against the more rigid stylus suspension. Most MM want a low mass arm because they have "soft" suspensions. The upside is you can do this. Folks with a fixed arm can not :D
 
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I have found out over the years that most tables will support two to three X their cost in cartridges. Not a hard fast rule, but usually applies.

You wanna try something different? Maybe an AT 150MLX
Also my experience. Have no qualms at all about running the Kontrapunkt-b and Lyra Kleos in my LT-22. Maybe I'm only getting 95% of what they are capable of, but it is a very fine 95%. Some day I'll put the DDX-1000 TT back in the system, but I'm loving the auto function of the LT-22 for now.

+1 on the AT150MLX. Is second only to the 2M Black in my system for MMs.
 
Check the tonearm/cartridge combination. On my Technics 1800MKII the BRonze was at the edge of compliance with my arm, the Black not at all compatible. Plus, if you don't have adjustments to raise or lower the arm, the Black may not be a good idea.
 
Well, after seeing what Ortofon is charging for RCA cables, I can only assume that their carts are grossly overpriced! Not a chance I go that route.

And moderator, I am not trying to bash the company or start a thread where that is done.
 
One point to consider is that both the Black and Bronze are cartridges that use line contact styli. I don't remember if your table has VTA adjustment on the arm, I thought it possibly did not. Proper VTA setting is important to get the optimum performance out of those cartridges, and to do it on a table without that adjustment means you have to resort to shims on the cartridge body. So it can be properly set up, but it is a tedious and time consuming process. But it does have to be done to get the most out of a line contact stylus.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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