Vibrations and smearing.

I've always known about vibrations and smearing. I've understood gear can make its own internal vibrations. Isolation of audio gear is so important to the hobbyist. If you're like me, you want to turn that bad boy on, put on a tune...sit back and enjoy...especially after a long day at work.

My room is in a finished basement. Carpet over concrete floors and sheet rock on the walls. Pretty solid. My gear is isolated on a wood audio table. At one point I had my gear lifted up off the wood about two inches with ceramic tiles and blocks. My TT has a motor that's not attached to the plinth and it too had great isolation from vibrations on its own platform. I also understood my amp and preamp didn't have the best platform with ceramic. But still, I could feel no vibrations with the touch of my hand but I knew they where in the amp and preamp. But no worries.....sound was great...good detail and separation of instruments...no smearing as far as I could tell.

I had some wood platforms for my preamp and CDP....but I had nothing big enough for my new amp. Took a look at Maple shade and too expensive for wood platforms...same with Timberland. So I took a look at Overstock.com and order two platforms...one for the amp and another for the TT. Got two maple blocks..20 x 15 x 3...perfect for the TT and amp for the price of one this size at Maple shade and Timberland. Each board cost me $79.

You never know how much your music is smeared until you isolate it even more. Maple is about one of the best for vibration contol. I was very happy to see even better sound from my Vincent...I expected it especially with tubes, but was just on the floor laughing my tail off over the TT! Who would have thonk it! Concete floors....sitting on a platform though it was ceramic, and lifted up on a wood audio table with a motor unattached to the plinth! No vibrations right? Wrong! The level of detail and staging that's coming from my records are just amazing! And its all because of vibration control...yeah, those dreadful internal vibrations....yeah, we know you're there, and we got something for ya!

Here's a pic!

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Nice wood base(s) Byron! Did they cost you $79 for shipping too due to their mass? LOL

Mike

MikeCh said:

Nice wood base(s) Byron! Did they cost you $79 for shipping too due to their mass? LOL

Mike

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lol!..actually free shipping! Cant beat that!

How thick were the ceramic tiles you had been using? I would almost think they would contribute to any vibration problem rather than alleviate it, unless they were very thick and heavy.

GuyK said:

How thick were the ceramic tiles you had been using? I would almost think they would contribute to any vibration problem rather than alleviate it, unless they were very thick and heavy.

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Thats just it...I had no obvious vibration problems. I only purchased the maple blocks because I know tube electronics create internal vibrations. The ceramic was a floor tile, so you know how thin they are. I expected the better focus from the amp, but not the TT.

I love the maple blocks. Thanks for sharing your experience with vibration control. I'm a long-time believer, myself.:yes:

stish said:

I love the maple blocks. Thanks for sharing your experience with vibration control. I'm a long-time believer, myself.:yes:

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Amen. Dynamat has rocked my world in the micro vibration department as well. I need to get at least one more maple block, thanks for the reminder.

Oh you're welcome guys.

I became a believer a long...long time ago of internal vibrations. I saw a picture of a system that had the CDP lifted off the platform. I wondered what that was about, so I lifted mine up. Highs become more detailed with air...mids seem to jump out and the bottom was more defined. I still had no idea why, until I researched. I discovered the reason why things became more focused was due to the isolation of internal vibrations. All gear has it until we control it. Until then, we are hearing a smeared sound...as unnoticeable and undetected as it is, until we isolate internal vibrations with some sort of solid foundation, we have smearing.

Now we can all have different opinions, but we can't have different facts....and internal vibrations and its control is a fact!

I have over $4000 invested in isolating my turntable and it has been worth every cent.

Wow! So what cost 4k? I assume it wasn't one item but a combination of things including a very good stand? You got pics?

Two questions;
What kind of feet did you put on that MH?
It looks like you put the block straight onto your rack, is that so? Anything underneath?

I'm looking to further isolate my 5.1 and was going to start with different feet, but maybe I should go straight for a maple block...

frankbooth said:

Two questions;
What kind of feet did you put on that MH?
It looks like you put the block straight onto your rack, is that so? Anything underneath?


I'm looking to further isolate my 5.1 and was going to start with different feet, but maybe I should go straight for a maple block...

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Hi Frank,

The 7.1 came with spikes and metal plates. I think the footing is different on the 5.1. Look at this page ....

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/departments.asp?dept=16

....and look at the TT isolation. They have those isoblocks under the wood block and the further isolation on top of the block for further Isolation which the TT sits on.

BTW...those isoblocks they sell and have under the wood blocks are a rip off. I use to work in Heating and Cooling a few years ago and those isoblocks are really isolation pads we used in the industry to isolated vibrations from air handlers, furnaces, and condenser units. They do work and you can find them at any heating and cooling supply house and online at much cheaper prices.

If you go to the links at maple shade, they have a good article about vibrations and isolating them. It should be under the section "free upgrades". Give it a good read.

I'm starting to become a big fan of hard-ample platforms too - just replaced the 3/4" platform under my VPI with this 2-1/2" one and really like the results. "Smearing" is a good term for what it helped reduce - images snap into focus better and the added detail helps spin a better illusion of the recorded event.

I really noticed this when listening to Neil Young's Live at Massey Hall LP the other day - clear, detailed image with lots of air and depth that really lets a recording like this suck you in. I don't remember it coming across this good before the new slab.



Mine is a simple Boos butcher block - About $100 to the door which is as cheap as I could find up here. Wanted thicker but didn't want to pay the price.

Great tip on those isolation pads too - I have a bunch of these and use them under various pieces like noisy computers, a PVR and some tube gear - especially effective under sensitive stuff like tube phono-stages. RichPA put me onto these years ago ('not' from Maple Shade ) - a great low-dollar tweak.

very nice, Bill! I noticed the same things you mentioned once I went with the wood block. but the funny part, A person never realizes they have smearing of the sound until they hear the difference. A good block is worth the coin. yeah, I will be getting some of those pads....last I checked they where going less than $2.00 on line.

you could start an entire thread about the best material for doing what you have done but my point is see what kind of difference a solid slab of maple has done for your TT? Now perhaps you can imagine what solid internal cabinet brace work will do for your loudspeaker with so much energy involved. Sp many people think if the veneer is pretty or the colour is nice then a big hollow empty box is just fine if you stuff a little fluff inside.Congratulations on your personal discovery I hope the journey continues for you and your listening experience is ever expanded. Best regards Moray James.

slippers-on said:

Wow! So what cost 4k? I assume it wasn't one item but a combination of things including a very good stand? You got pics?

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Sorry I don't have a camera.

Amongst other things, 21 of the things in the thumbnail below:

I'm all for cheap, but if you're going to explore the $4K territory, there are interesting options. In a prior career, I worked around Scanning Electron Microscopes and Scanning/Tunneling Microscopes. Both required demanding vibration isolation to avoid obvious smearing in images of individual atoms and arrays of atoms. Some of these are well under the $4K mark:

http://www.minusk.com/content/price-list_vibration_isolators_table_platforms_benchtops.html

The company's promo page even mentions "high-end audio" applications.

(No affiliation nor financial interest in the company linked.)

jaguar06 said:

I'm all for cheap, but if you're going to explore the $4K territory, there are interesting options. In a prior career, I worked around Scanning Electron Microscopes and Scanning/Tunneling Microscopes. Both required demanding vibration isolation to avoid obvious smearing in images of individual atoms and arrays of atoms. Some of these are well under the $4K mark:

http://www.minusk.com/content/price-list_vibration_isolators_table_platforms_benchtops.html

The company's promo page even mentions "high-end audio" applications.

(No affiliation nor financial interest in the company linked.)

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I was posting here on AK about the MinusK at least 6 years ago.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1458756&highlight=minus#post1458756

See post #19

This is interesting:
"• NEVER use speaker cables shorter than 8'. Amazingly, 4' sounds much worse than 8'. Contrary to common belief, shorter interconnects (2 m or less) and longer speaker cables always sound WAY BETTER than the opposite—based on extensive head-to-head tests." From http://www.mapleshadestore.com/upgrades_cable.php

I brought this up recently in a thread by ehoove regarding this very thing. It is surprising since its goes against what I've been led to believe.

wash.and.dry said:

This is interesting:
"• NEVER use speaker cables shorter than 8'. Amazingly, 4' sounds much worse than 8'. Contrary to common belief, shorter interconnects (2 m or less) and longer speaker cables always sound WAY BETTER than the opposite—based on extensive head-to-head tests." From http://www.mapleshadestore.com/upgrades_cable.php

I brought this up recently in a thread by ehoove regarding this very thing. It is surprising since its goes against what I've been led to believe.

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Well that's funny. I use active speakers. The amps are inside the cabinets of the speakers. The interconnects are 15 feet long and the 'speaker cable' would have to be only inches long.

These are the best speakers I've ever heard in 35+ years.

How do they explain that away?