Heresy I mod advice

Calvink100

Active Member
Hello,

So I am currently tweaking my much loved Heresy I's and I wanted some advice before I seal them up. I listed below the mods I have done so far and what I have left stock. I am VERY happy with the refined sound from the crossover upgrades, bracing, and foaming I have done so far, but the bass just isn't there like it used to be...

Here is a list of what I have done so far:
-Replaced old caps with Audyn and Solen caps (I kept the crossover specs stock)
- Braced the the cabinets (see pictures).
-Made risers (I have vintage solid brass isolation spikes that will go on later)
- Foamed the woofer area (cabinet bottom, sides, and back)
-Placed some polyfill in the bottom area of the cabinets.
-Upgraded the old cinch screw posts with gold plated binding posts (nothing crazy high end, just cheap ones from ebay)

What I left alone:
-All speakers are stock.
-Transformers
-Connectors
-Wires

The area where I really need advice is finding the right amount of foam and polyfill for these speakers. I have a few approaches that maybe someone could help steer me in the right direction.

Approach 1- Remove all or most of the foam and keep the polyfill (My thinking is the foam is stealing cabinet volume and the polyfill is doing a better job of damping anyway)

Approach 2- Remove the foam and fill the cabinet top to bottom with loose polyfill (My thinking being the more polyfill the more the woofer is being tricked into thinking the cabinet is bigger that it is)

I run my Heresy's with a fully restored Fisher 400 tube receiver (30 wpc) and listen to a variety of music.

Thanks for the help!
 

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Hello,

So I am currently tweaking my much loved Heresy I's and I wanted some advice before I seal them up. I listed below the mods I have done so far and what I have left stock. I am VERY happy with the refined sound from the crossover upgrades, bracing, and foaming I have done so far, but the bass just isn't there like it used to be...

Here is a list of what I have done so far:
-Replaced old caps with Audyn and Solen caps (I kept the crossover specs stock)
- Braced the the cabinets (see pictures).
-Made risers (I have vintage solid brass isolation spikes that will go on later)
- Foamed the woofer area (cabinet bottom, sides, and back)
-Placed some polyfill in the bottom area of the cabinets.
-Upgraded the old cinch screw posts with gold plated binding posts (nothing crazy high end, just cheap ones from ebay)

What I left alone:
-All speakers are stock.
-Transformers
-Connectors
-Wires

The area where I really need advice is finding the right amount of foam and polyfill for these speakers. I have a few approaches that maybe someone could help steer me in the right direction.

Approach 1- Remove all or most of the foam and keep the polyfill (My thinking is the foam is stealing cabinet volume and the polyfill is doing a better job of damping anyway)

Approach 2- Remove the foam and fill the cabinet top to bottom with loose polyfill (My thinking being the more polyfill the more the woofer is being tricked into thinking the cabinet is bigger that it is)

I run my Heresy's with a fully restored Fisher 400 tube receiver (30 wpc) and listen to a variety of music.

Thanks for the help!

I used the poly fill, and recapped my Heresy 1's, I filled the cabinet all the way with loose poly. I made sure to not pack anyof it, especially around the exposed cone of the woofer. My Heresy's have a little extra thump to the bass now, and the new caps have the horns sounding great.
 
The addition of the risers may have something to do with the lost bass response. I'm in no way suggesting putting them back on the floor, I have mine 18" off the floor for improved imaging. You're on the right track with the poly fill, but the bracing in the pic looks inadequate. Try using a piece of 3/4 plywood with cutouts between the woofer and mid-range, this will brace all sides together. If able use two pieces, one horizontal and the other vertically aligned, this will brace all panels together, top, bottom, and sides.

Martin
 
you did not say how long you have actually run the speakers since you have installed the new capacitors? Some caps will take four weeks or more of daily use to settle in and sound good so you might just want to be patient. Poly fill is pretty much a useless material to use in damping loudspeakers. It takes up volume and does little to damp and is useless at frequencies much below a few hundred Hz. High density fiberglass is the most effective material that you can use and it will provide damping to lower frequencies than anything else that you might use. My two sets of H3 are almost totally packed solid with HD fiberglass I have then up on 22" high stands them make bass like you would not believe they make bass better than some Cornwall set ups I have heard. Below are some links of threads of mine discussing some of the things that I do. I hope that this info is of some use to you. Use pillow stuffing for pillows and quilts used real damping material in speakers. For those who disagree on this point please show me one real professional architectural low frequency damping device which uses poly fill to damp low frequencies. There are none because it is useless at low frequencies. Best regards Moray James.




http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=529599
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=438234
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=441379
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=430992
 
This is what I use.

Overview
Acousta-Stuf is a synthetic material made from crimped fibers. It is an excellent choice for filling small enclosures or transmission line cabinets. Acousta-Stuf will also outperform Dacron, foam, and fiberglass. Acousta-Stuf is a sound absorption, dampening fiber that will deepen bass and more!
 
Steve: I used to use Acousta-Stuff in my transmission line designs, I also used long fiber wool. Both are good but they are a bit of a fuss with carding being =necessary and they can compact with time and need to be carded again (teased out). HD fiberglass is easy to install though the fibers are a pita but after that you can forget it. HD fiberglass orientation has a significant impact upon how well it works. Do you have data that shows the superiority of Acousta-Stuff over HD fiberglass? I would be interested in seeing measurements. The Blue Jeans material is also supposed to be good but I don't remember its low frequency absorption. Best regards Moray James.
 
Thanks for the help guys!

I upgraded the caps two years ago and added the foam when I upgraded the caps (I am very happy with this change). The risers I made last year (also I huge improvement IMO). The bracing, polyfill and binding posts were within the last two weeks.

I am hearing from you guys to ditch the Jo-Ann Fabric polyfill and buy some fiberglass insulation and fill the cabinets with that instead.

I feel the bracing has improved the strength of the cabinets and am happy with that for the time being (I was trying to be minimalistic).

So should I remove all of the foam and fill the cabinets top to bottom (watching not to pack close to the woofer) with loose fiberglass insulation?

Any particular type of insulation? How much should I buy for this?
 
All the sound absorbency extends the bass, stops the reflection off the back of the cabinet from modulating the cone, but decreases the output of the woofer a touch. Another thing it does is change the relation ship of the enclosure to the woofer. It would be fun to measure the change of the parameters of the system output.
 
Back in the day, some 30+ years ago, when bothe my buddy and I owned Heresys we found them to be too forward and shouty with the high end being harsh. A simple mod we both did was to remove the tweeter, horn and all from the cabinet, and set it back from the front face of the cabinet. The distance preferred is up to individual but this did help.
 
All the sound absorbency extends the bass, stops the reflection off the back of the cabinet from modulating the cone, but decreases the output of the woofer a touch. Another thing it does is change the relation ship of the enclosure to the woofer. It would be fun to measure the change of the parameters of the system output.

the damping has the effect of causing the volume in the cabinet to appear to be larger to the woofer than it really is and so bass response is extended downward some and the price that you pay for this is a small loss in efficiency, nothing new here. More effective damping material will damp to lower frequencies than poor material like poly fill. You are only concerned with the range of the woofer which is between the driver resonant point in the cabinet and about 3000Hz.. Woofer crossover is around 750 Hz in a Heresy so four times that and it is dead and gone. Any decrease in total output could only be from a very small reduction in reflected radiation inside of the cabinet back out through the cone and externally off the cabinet walls. That won't be very much but even small reductions there do have the affect of cleaning things up sonically which is a real bonus. Brace work is the most effective way of eliminating cabinet distortion, stiffening the cabinet walls so that they cannot resonate within the pass band of the woofer will eliminate cabinet wall radiation. Best regards Moray James.
 
So should I remove the foam and fill with loose fiberglass insulation to get the most out of damping and keep the most cabinet volume possible?
 
Check out Owens Corning 703 High Density Fiberglass that is the best there, are less expensive options but they are not as good. You can try stuffing with standard Fiberglass Pink and see what you think. You may want to experiment with the packing density. I would start with a very full cabinet and see what you think. I really dislike having discussions like this as most people only want simple and cheap and then the results that they get match what they have done. Then the cry is that it dose not help, it does not work they can't make bass. I admit most folks are not going to do what I did but then they don't get the results I do either. Experiment and see if you can find a combination that makes you happy. In the end that is all that matters. Have fun I am sure that you are going to enjoy your Heresy. Best regards Moray James.

Check out my links in post#6
 
Two words are all you need to know. Bob Crites! The Klipsch guru. The Titanium tweeter diaphragm upgrade and the crossover upgrades are major moves towards the best sound out of Klipsch you can find. That coupled with proper placement and a low damped SS or good tube amp will get you something very musical.
 
I've done a lot of the stuff you've mentioned (including putting Mortite rope caulk on the squawker horns to dampening ringing). And like you, I used to use my Fisher 400 receiver with these, but the two changes that had the MOST impact on sound quality had nothing to do with the Heresy 1 units. They were:

1) Building a Loftin White style 2A3 SET stereo amp to power the Heresy. The sound quality of the Heresy units using 2A3 power is sooo much better....the difference is like night and day, especially in the mids. Save the Fisher for something not as horny.

2) Adding a decent subwoofer- I supplemented my Heresy's with a used REL Q201E sub which sounds killer with the Heresy's and SET.
 
I agree with KentTeffeteller and Dadbar. My Heresy I's have Crites tweeters and crossover mods. That made a BIG difference. I drive them with Bottlehead Paramour 2A3 monoblocs that I built myself when they first came out. The Heresys really go well with the 2A3s.
 
Check out Owens Corning 703 High Density Fiberglass that is the best there, are less expensive options but they are not as good. You can try stuffing with standard Fiberglass Pink and see what you think. You may want to experiment with the packing density. I would start with a very full cabinet and see what you think. I really dislike having discussions like this as most people only want simple and cheap and then the results that they get match what they have done. Then the cry is that it dose not help, it does not work they can't make bass. I admit most folks are not going to do what I did but then they don't get the results I do either. Experiment and see if you can find a combination that makes you happy. In the end that is all that matters. Have fun I am sure that you are going to enjoy your Heresy. Best regards Moray James.

Check out my links in post#6

Thanks for the help James, I will consider the Owens Corning fiberglass, I want to do these speakers right! Thats what I love about my Heresy's, whether I am tweaking them or listening to them, they are so much! I used to have a pair of B&W 604 S3's and they were very nice but....no fun! Thanks for your help and advice. You seem to be the Heresy guru!
 
moray - can you post a picture of how you installed the high density fiberglass in your Heresey cabinets? I have read your descriptions before but a picture would be of great help for those like me who are not the sharpest tools hanging in the barn. Many thanks for your continued input, your expertise and experience are appreciated.
 
I don't have a working camera. I hope that this explanation will help.

HD fiberglass comes in stiff fairly rigid boards it is not the soft compressible material that you stuff in between your joists for insulation or roll out in your attic. Thickness of the board will vary depending upon the exact material that you have and can be any were from a half inch thick to inches thick. I rather like the thin material best. HD fiberglass boards are compressed to make them more dense and it makers them semi rigid, Like anything that you compress into a rigid dense sheet you will find that almost always the top surface(s) is compressed first and like particle board the top and bottom of the large flat surface is the most dense and the centre core of the material is somewhat less dense. It is this variance of density which can be used to our advantage whey looking to optimize the amount of damping possible for a given amount of material.

When installing the HD fiberglass board into the speaker cabinet you do not want the flat dense surface of the board to face the woofer rather you want to rotate the HD board 90 degrees so that the reward radiation of the woofer fires directly into the least dense and the most porous part of the board. The more layers that you have side by side the better as each set of boards provides more and more loss of energy over the widest band possible. If you have any questions please ask. Best regards Moray James.
 
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