Kef or Harbeth in very small room?

mcanaday

Active Member
I have a friend who is setting up her first nice system. She just has a small listening room...it is about 12 by 8. She will have speakers pulled out from the 12 foot wall, with listening chair in front, 5-6 feet from speakers. Will Kef LS50s overpower the room? Is the Harbeth P3 her best bet? Other ideas for speakers? (Component guidance welcome too...she is starting from scratch.). Her musical taste is varied, but lots of jazz and classical. Budget is around 5 k. With thanks! Margot
 
I've listened to the KEF's but not the Harbeth. The LS-50's are very well balanced but lively with amazing bass response for a speaker their size. Rave reviews from almost every owner including a huge thread here with some big fans.
Nearfield or fairly large rooms seemingly doesn't matter.

Excellent speaker in my view.
 
I have owned both speakers and used them in a 9x10 room. I think it will depend greatly on her pereferences. I love both speakers. I found the Harbeths a bit more dynamically constrained. The KEF's do all of my music proud. I listen to all kinds of music but far more Jazz and Classical than anything else.

Is the budget 5k all in, or for just the speakers? What components will the speakers be partnered to?
 
Never listened to the LS-50, but according to lots of members here, excellent speaker.
I've listened to the P3ESR, and some of the Totem line, the Mite, the Rainmaker, and the Model-1 Signature. All are small speakers, and all are excellent speakers.
She should, if she can, listen to as many of them or others as possible.
Also, it will depend what she has for amplification.
 
I have just reviewed the Audio Note AX Two and I own it as well as the KEF LS-50. Both speakers I like considerably more than any of the LS-3/5a and variations of it that I have heard including the Harbeth. (Though I do like Harbeth's bigger speakers).

I compare the AX Two and the LS-50 somewhat in my review - I can't link to it however so you will have to google "dagogo" and "Audio Note AX Two"

Both speakers are excellent and both speakers bring different advantages to the table.

I could also give you a capsule on the Harbeth but it is more than $1000 more than the KEF and $1700 more than the AX Two now and the advantage escapes me to be blunt. They do look great though but IMO you pay a big premium for the looks finish etc.

Quickly:

Strengths in favour of KEF LS-50.
Bass depth and slam (slight edge)

More modern sound

superior with trans pop hip hip (slight edge)

leading edge attack (can hear the steel in the string more)

Much nicer build quality

Less self noise (blacker background)

Much better looking (modern sexy beautiful piano black lacquer makes it look like a much more expensive product. The AX Two looks boring and heavily dated in comparison. Looks and feels more elegant in every conceivable way.

Easier to find and audition

Imaging (more precise than the AX Two) meaning you can locate specific locations of instruments better. (although this is fairly slight) and personally would not care or notice unless I had both in the same room to A/B.


Strengths in favour of the Audio Note AX Two:


Better treble overall: smoother, more natural, (females are likely to notice this even more than males)

More organic and whole.

Bigger scale top to bottom (bigger stage enhances the live feel)

Soundstage (bigger stage and covers a wider area allowing you to sit mostly anywhere ie; they fill the room better and you don't have to sit in one narrow spot at a specific ear height to get good sound. The trade-off is the precise imaging you get from the KEF).

Better instrument decay - the body of instrument and the hall is presented - but at the loss of the KEF's superior leading edge behavior so the AX Two has a slightly more polite overall feel - this ultimately sounds better with acoustic instruments such as cello or violin and piano but not as much with steel guitar.

Far easier to position: The AX Two can be pushed up against the back wall (sounds better there in fact) but also sounds fine well away from walls. Can more or less sit anywhere and get excellent results. You can sit nearfield midfield or farfield.

Much much easier to power. The AX Two is a 6 ohm minimum 5 ohm speaker and can be run with 7 watts. 90dB sensitive. (Ie; less power and less money can be spent to get the AX Two to sound very nice. For a time I ran the $150 Class T amps from Trends audio and the sound was very good indeed. That won't happen with the KEF which needs power supplies.

2/3 the price (but it's nowhere near as nice looking or heavy or posh)

Can be biamped/biwired

Tough to find to audition (less dealers)

Hand built in Denmark


Component suggestions can come depending on the speakers. Obviously a hard to drive speaker limits your options rather greatly while easy to drive speakers will allow you to run any of the high power amp options as well as all the lower powered amp options. If you are a Canadian like me you will be able to audition all three speakers rather easily as there are dealers across Canada for all three brands.

I am in BC next week and if you are on this end of the country I highly recommend Soundhounds in Victoria. They carry the AX Two and the Harbeth. The elected not to carry KEF.

All of them are fine but at the end of the day you try to make a list of all the things each speaker does - looking down the road as well at future upgrades she may get interested in.

Lastly, I could suggest many other speakers in this price range because to be blunt there are many good ones. But if you can save your girlfriend some money and still get great sound or better save some of the money on the speakers and have nicer electronics etc then I'd consider it. And there are a ton of good second hand options that could be had for around the price and sound better than any of the three if you're patient and don't mind second hand.
 
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Thanks everyone! It sounds like we have good options, then, even in a room this small. That is great news. RGA,we are a long way from British Columbia but will see if we can hear Audio Note closer to home (not a brand I know, so thanks). Art, the total budget is 5k. If Kef, I was thinking Arcam A19 or Rega Brio R; if Harbeth (or Totem) maybe Rega or Wyred4sound mint? I'd love any thoughts, though, about what components you all think might be optimal in this application. With many thanks, Margot
 
Thanks everyone! It sounds like we have good options, then, even in a room this small. That is great news. RGA,we are a long way from British Columbia but will see if we can hear Audio Note closer to home (not a brand I know, so thanks). Art, the total budget is 5k. If Kef, I was thinking Arcam A19 or Rega Brio R; if Harbeth (or Totem) maybe Rega or Wyred4sound mint? I'd love any thoughts, though, about what components you all think might be optimal in this application. With many thanks, Margot

Obviously I prefer the Brio-R to the other two since I have two of them.
 
Yes most people don't know Audio Note because they typically make stupidly expensive 1/2 million dollar+ stereo systems so it's generally an esoteric brand for wealthy German dentists.


After thinking it over some more - you know it's best to spend the time auditioning stuff herself - try not to get focused on reviews or brand names. I key holed in on the KEF and AX Two simply because I have both of them here on hand.

Far too often we get fixated on the brand or the big review and the lesser known stuff gets missed as a result. Big names have more marketing clout and get more reviews. But back in Canada I picked up some nice Tannoy speakers at Cash Converters (a pawn shop) for $60 in perfect condition. The KEF and AX Two are better but - c'mon $60 and you can live with them. Tannoy is no slouch. I've seen some pretty good Paradigm, B&W DM series and PSBs in those placed for a song.

This is her first good stereo - simple is better. Generally I prefer going with a bigger overall sound than what Totem has to offer. They look cute but you wind up overpaying for wood veneers and the midrange is IMO hihly cupped and compressed - lots of bass for the size and lots of treble but over the long haul that wares when the midrange is quashed. In fast auditions in busy showrooms you get impressed when you hear big bass from 4 inch woofers but it always comes at an expense of sounding thick over time and smearing the midrange.

My suggestion is have her listen for awhile - as long as possible. Speakers and systems that impress for 20 minutes may irritate you over a longer session.

Also, no matter how much people may like something you may not (or she may not).

Is she into a product that looks interesting as well as sounds good? $5k is a lot to spend just out of the blue. Speakers are a pretty safe bet on the used market. For ~$2000 she might get a second hand pair of Focal Micro Utopia or Reference 3a MM De Capo or Audio Note K/Lx which are bigger more full range standmounts but should be fine in in a 12 by 8 room.

If she wants headphones as well as playing music from a computer you might look at something like the OPPO HA-1 https://www.oppodigital.com/headphone-amplifier-ha-1/

This thing does everything - it's a DAC for computer audio playback, it's a preamplifier, it's a headphone amplifier. Plug in the ipod etc. I have not heard it but OPPO has a very solid reputation - then buy a decent power amp second hand - they can be very cheap indeed and power amps are very safe buys second hand because there are no moving parts. You could pick up 70-200 watt per channel amps for $200 from NAD/Rotel/Arcam etc.

Indeed, the Rotel RB 1050 is a nice 70 watt per channel power amp that can be had for $250 used - it was a pretty big seller so they pop up often. With her budget she could do even better on the power amp front.

This route will best the $1200-$1500 integrated amp options. You will get more power and separate power supplies and more upgrade options (flexibility) down the road. Plus the HA-1 will out feature any integrated amps. Separate preamps almost always sound better than the preamps in budget integrated amplifiers. And integrateds don't have any features typically.

Get her to listen to as much as she can. keep track of the favorites - try to block out the looks and reviews and name badges - every brand gets a good review from someone.

Besides part of the fun is in the shopping and hunting. I don't mean this to be condescending to women but some women need to be convinces that it is like buying an outfit - that the gadgets actually sound different and have their own "style" when presenting the music. And not every styles suits every listeners just as Rolex and Omega make $8,000 watches which watch you like won't necessarily be the one I like. :music:
 
For whatever reason, RGA, she's pretty into it and doesn't seem to need much convincing that this is fun shopping to do. Looking forward to getting started. Thanks very much for all your good advice. Much appreciated! mc
 
That's a good thing. It's a geat hobby and I wish more women were into it. There are a couple of female posters on audioasylum and of course Sue Kraft was a reviewer at TAS.

They like music just as much as guys and I met a woman who was upgrading Rotel to Naim at Hi-Fi Center many years ago. She knew quite a bit of the technical side of things as well. I don't know what the barrier is but there seems to be a lot more women in Hong Kong shopping (and for tube amps no less) that is intriguing. Granted shopping with their husbands but listening seriously and commenting on whicxh sounded better/more moving etc.
 
Tell her to get a pair of Tekton Lores, or even Enzos and a nice integrated like the Rega Brio-R or an SET tube amp and be done with it.
 
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