I tried that golden ratio speaker placement...WOW!

89grand

Addicted Member
So last night I was reading about that golden ratio speaker placement and decided to leave the Time Windows where they were, and brought in the L80t's to do it with.

After placing the speakers, and moving them to the measured spots I took a listen. The sound stage depth is unbelievable, it's really 3 dimensional and really deep. I've never had that before. Usually most of the music seems roughly on the same plane as far as depth, but with this setup, the drums sound further back from say the guitar, I mean it sounds life like almost. The center image is real strong, and vocals have depth when they should. The width is good too, and a lot better than I figured it would be with the speakers closer together than how I normally have them. They also didn't sound nearly as close as they are to the listening position as it seemed they would either.

One problem, I can't leave them like this permanently.:thumbsdn: It just won't work with the speakers that far out into the room, and that far in front of the tv. I guess I can always move them when I know I'm going to spend some hours listening to music, then move them back for normal tv viewing.

I knew speaker placement made a difference, as far as spacing for a good center image, away from the side and rear walls to avoid boomy bass, but this experiment was a real eye opener. It sounds dramatically different, not subtle at all. Makes me wish I had a large room just for audio where the speaker placement wouldn't matter, but in a living room, unfortunately it does.

I wonder if there are other placement techniques that work pretty well without being so far out into the room. Probably not, or at least they probably don't work as well.

Here's a few pics so you can see why this wouldn't really work full time. The speakers look less like an issue in the pictures than in person. They look a little further back than they are.
 

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I took a few more pics to give a better idea of just far out they are in the room, way in front of the tv.
 

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I took a few more pics to give a better idea of just far out they are in the room, way in front of the tv.
The golden rule has existed for so long and is widely used especially in woodworking. Nice to hear (pun intended) that it sounded good. Nice thing about the man cave, I only need please my ears.

Nice looking room by the way!
 
when i first got my MX 400 vegas i had them set up like that. The placement now doesnt rival the sound i got out of them then...Then they were like 5 feet away from the front wall and the closest to one wall was another 4 or 5 feet. Much like your setup. Bass was so deep, but when my son played his games w
he was a foot away from the speakers. He likes to sit near the tv...
 
google golden rectangle speaker placement. It's speaker placement derived from the golden ratio of 1:1.61803 which corresponds to the Fibonacci sequence. Careful - this could lead to being up all night if this sort of thing wows you. Like I said Fibonacci is everywhere. Look at your finger the ratio applies to each segment between knuckles and the 3rd to the combination of the 1st and second it also applies to the spiral sequence of a natilus and a sunflower and almost everything else in nature.

i know about the equilateral triangle positioning.. what golden positioning rule are you referring to?
 
i know about the equilateral triangle positioning.. what golden positioning rule are you referring to?

Like mentioned earlier, it's the golden ratio.

Basically, you take the width of your room, and do this math.

The distance from the center of the woofer face to the side walls is:

Room Width times .276 (RW x .276)

The distance from the center of the woofer face to the wall behind the speaker is:

Room Width times .447 (RW x .447)

In my case, with a 13 foot wide room, the center of the woofer is 43.05" from the side wall, and 69.73" from the rear wall. Now this is from the woofer cone, not the edge of the cabinet.

Go here, there's a handy calculator.

My stereo sounds the best it ever has. I'm not even getting any of the shrillness the L80t's occasionally had before. I know this is nothing new, but it's mind blowing to me. I'd heard of it years ago, but never bothered to try it because it requires the speakers to be further from the rear wall than I had wanted to do before. I probably can't leave mine like this, but now that I know the measurements, I'll just move them back when I know I'm going to listen to music all night.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring
 
I just checked mine, and for some reason had the rear wall calculation wrong. I was about a foot less than it's supposed to be. It still sounded excellent. I'm going to check it out again now that the rear wall placement is correct.
 
That's nothing. You should see my place...

When you finally get your speakers in that sweet spot, everything opens up and depth and dynamics go way-up. My W60E's are WAY-out into the room, plus I keep the space around the speakers clear and unobstructed. I just couldn't see going back after hearing them like that, plus, with my living room, I need all the help I can get. Things should get a lot easier once I get the W90's in here. Those are easy to place. Room-treatments are next on the agenda though. I'll need it with two 12" woofers per cab.
 
With the W60E's, the whole thing goes out of wack if either speaker gets moved even a half-inch in any direction, but when you finally get the measurements right, it's heaven...

They do need their space though. Makes a huge difference when you can get them out from the walls.
 
I almost wish I hadn't even tried this. After I moved the speakers from the rear wall a little further like they were supposed to be after I rechecked my math, what sounded great got even better. I don't think I'll be able to listen to them in their old spot any more.

I was just listening to Tin Man from America, and I swear the vocals sounded like they were coming out of my center channel that is a good 3 feet further back from the mains, even though of course it wasn't even on.

I really cannot believe the sound stage difference, it's so dramatic, it sounds like a completely different system. The tonality of the L80t's improved a great deal too, they're sounding f'ing awesome. I liked them pretty well before, but it's like I bought a better pair of speakers.

I made note of where they sit from the side and rear wall, as far as a cabinet measurement, so that I can move them back out any time without measuring from the woofer cone. I'll put them back where my mains normally were for TV and movies, but I won't be able stand music in that location any more.
 
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I almost wish I hadn't even tried this. After I moved the speakers from the rear wall a little further like they were supposed to be after I rechecked my math, what sounded great got even better. I don't think I'll be able to listen to them in their old spot any more.

I was just listening to Tin Man from America, and I swear the vocals sounded like they were coming out of my center channel that is a good 3 feet further back from the mains, even though of course it wasn't even on.

I really cannot believe the sound stage difference, it's so dramatic, it sounds like a completely different system. The tonality of the L80t's improved a great deal too, they're sounding f'ing awesome. I liked them pretty well before, but it's like I bought a better pair of speakers.

I made note of where they sit from the side and rear wall, as far as a cabinet measurement, so that I can move them back out any time without measuring from the woofer cone. I'll put them back where my mains normally were for TV and movies, but I won't be able stand music in that location any more.
Imagine what your other speakers will sound like. I'll be tinkering with this more tomorrow. Most of my time is getting things situated with the 901's that came today.
 
Imagine what your other speakers will sound like. I'll be tinkering with this more tomorrow. Most of my time is getting things situated with the 901's that came today.

What sucks is that I don't think the Time Windows will work well in this arrangement because of the way they have two woofers and two tweeters, one pair on each of the angled front baffles. One woofer and tweeter would be firing right into a chair that I really can't move.

I might try them just to see, otherwise, the L80t's are staying in this system, and they TW's will go in my computer room setup.

I'm sure some of the speakers I've booted out of here, would have sounded a lot better in this setup, but, then again, I've always kept the speakers that I thought sounded the best in my previous less than ideal setup, so those same speakers probably sound better in this setup too.

I've always been kind of curious about the 901's. I've only heard one setup many years a go. I seem to remember it sounded pretty decent.
 
i guess i cant do it with my room. i have my setup on the wide wall.. its asking to put my speakers 70" into the room.. thats practially on top of my couch which on the wall opposite of the entertainment area...
my room is 13' or 157" by 10' 120"
 
waf went down but my JBL L36 have never sounded so inviting

I think this is what is meant by the term "Studio Monitor". So clear
 
Now you know what us sound stage fanatics are talking about.:yes:

There are currently a couple of threads on room treatments for improving sound. They seem to neglect speaker positioning.

Speaker positioning threads always neglect room treatment.

Proper speaker positioning goes hand in hand with room treatments.
 
my primary listening space is unfortuntaley a mess for fidelity. It is L shaped with a 24' wall on the back. It consists of a living room and a dining room. The dining room is what expands the normal rectangle to make the room L shaped.

By building an imaginary wall between the two rooms and using these measurements, I have placed the speakers well into the living room and it works.

I am sitting a lot closer to the speakers than I thought would be ideal. The highs seem to be less forward than when they are placed farther back against the wall.
 
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