Inevitable inner groove wear on rock records.

I've noticed much more inner groove distortion on my son's rock records than on my jazz or classical albums. Used Classical records, in general, seem to be close to perfect condition. I attribute this phenomenon to many causes: most rock listeners in the old days didn't have the money for a good turntable; many rock listeners played their music in a state of intoxication from various sources. Good classical records were always expensive. This fact alone may have made listeners think twice before leaving a record on the floor after a party.

But in all seriousness, I've been surprised by the like-new condition of most used classical albums I find at a local record store. Some look like they were never played. For example, I just bought a first pressing of Elliott Carter's 1st piano concerto on RCA's red label, for $3.95. The record, sold in the 60s, looks like it was never played. The sound quality on some classical pressings from the 60s is simply amazing. And most are relatively inexpensive, not like those inflated jazz "Blue Notes."

It's not like I've given up on rock, it's just very difficult to find some titles that weren't savaged.

Your observations and experiences are mine as well. Except that you neglected to mention that kiddie LP's are similarly ruined.

I have some GW Musical Heritage Society LP's that looked unplayed

Mostly I think it has to do with the age group difference between the two genres. Older people tend to take better care of things, and most rock albums which have date were owned by a much younger crowd.

Inner groove wear is not inevitable, just buy a linear tracking table and when you buy new music insure it is only played on that type of table. Inner groove wear should be minimized if not eliminated.

gagelle, you got the "semi intoxication" part right (I was around in those times).
Only thing seemed more prevalent was soda and beer spilled on the records.

I have been having a ball buying classical for the last five years. It is a pleasure to put on a 40 or 50 year old record that shines like new. Spin it up, drop the needle, and just soak up the music.

I think the difference was not just age but, quite simply, the priority of the previous owner. The classical listener was concerned with the quality and immersion of the music while the majority of rock listeners found the music to be just a part of the whole experience that day. So many of my friends did not have the gear back then and neither did I. It wasn't part of the world I grew up in. That is another reason that classical is such a pleasure now.

I was buying rock records in the late 60's through the 80's. The relative poorer condition of the used rock records as compared to classical or jazz is simple. We were kids and teenagers and we did not have money. Most did not have high quality turntables and we did not change the stylus enough. I was the only one in my large group of friends that could reliably set vtf and anti skate back then ... and I knew nothing about cartridge alignment. When he had extra money we bought more records, not cartridge alignment tools.

Intoxication is a smaller factor at play here but not the reason.

Back then classical music was purchased by older people with better equipment, not teenagers.

No demographic group bought more records than teenagers, no group spent more time immersed in music either. We wore out records by playing them countless times, over and over, on poor or improperly aligned equipment.

It has only rock n'roll, and we liked it.

I just listened to one of the 100 LPs I got for $24, jazz piano....
The surface looked pristine, but it has huge internal groove distortion...I added weight, 2.5 from 1.5g and most went away.....couldn't get rid of all of it though...

I also think it was common for pop fans to play something over and over again, whereas classical fans are more likely to play something once, then want to hear it with a different conductor or soloist, for example. I have records were one track is much more worn than the rest (but they don't stay in the collection for long).

markshan said:

I also think it was common for pop fans to play something over and over again, whereas classical fans are more likely to play something once, then want to hear it with a different conductor or soloist, for example.

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Exactly. Less plays = less wear.

Bunch of musicians I knew played the same track over and over trying to "get it right."

Older guys in our school's audio visual club had things work out.

Buy the least expensive stereo reel to reel and tape other people's nearly new records.

Most of us had the high speed tape duplicating accessory too.

Initially all I had was an Akai 1710 RTR and Akai headphones!

In olden days, what we now call Audiophiles were also multi-audio oriented and entertained most all genre of audio.

Ken Boyd said:

Mostly I think it has to do with the age group difference between the two genres. Older people tend to take better care of things, and most rock albums which have date were owned by a much younger crowd.

Inner groove wear is not inevitable, just buy a linear tracking table and when you buy new music insure it is only played on that type of table. Inner groove wear should be minimized if not eliminated.

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Additionally, rock records by and large are played a lot more often than classical records.

Playing them over and over didn't help.

Yep, I've noticed the same issue. I buy classical and jazz from an online dealer for the past year and they are pristine, and graded at VG+, not so with rock records. Rock records I try to buy locally, so I can return if need be. But , I have yet to come across IGD with any records, yet.

tybrad said:

I have some GW Musical Heritage Society LP's that looked unplayed

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Yes, and many of those MHS pressings are superb, both artistically and technically. The no-frills covers may not grab attention, but the records are worth picking up.

I reckon the inner grooves of the 2nd side of rock records didn't get played so often. Just the distraction/time commitment to get through a whole album. Classical might fair more evenly, it's not like you want to miss the end of the work I suppose. But I suspect the last two records of 4 disc opera sets didn't see much action !

So if the inner groove of 2nd side of a rock album is distorted, it's less likely to be wear I reckon. Exception for beer damage, naturally. And since IME there's not much to chose between performance of 1st and 2nd side inner grooves, I reckon that's probably evidence that wear isn't the issue - generally speaking.

Although there are fried records out there, I believe most records tend to stay pretty much in the state they were manufactured - barring serious maltreatment !

awprint:

Indeed

jhtstone said:

I have been having a ball buying classical for the last five years. It is a pleasure to put on a 40 or 50 year old record that shines like new. Spin it up, drop the needle, and just soak up the music.

I think the difference was not just age but, quite simply, the priority of the previous owner. The classical listener was concerned with the quality and immersion of the music while the majority of rock listeners found the music to be just a part of the whole experience that day. So many of my friends did not have the gear back then and neither did I. It wasn't part of the world I grew up in. That is another reason that classical is such a pleasure now.

Click to expand...

Here, included, is a photo of this weeks vinyl deliveries. It will also demonstrate that i don't have a style in particular that i prefer at all times, i simply like good music of most genres. You may also note, i haven't removed all the extra Blu-Tack residue, used to isolate the glass shelves, as well as my real DIY isolators for my Music Hall...They are heels from the most industrial Dr.Scholl's inserts. My TT is Gellin'! I paid no more than $4 for any of these LPs, and they are in fine form, unlike my "Sounds of Disneyland" LP from early childhood. It was skipping inside 2 months, due to me being allowed to play it myself at age 5.

i would also add to the point that classical, such as The Mozart Symphonies on the Phillips Label, and the Beethoven, look minty, shiny new, and play even better. Anyone ever think people bought these to look good in their collection, much like people buy War & Peace or Don Quixote to put on their bookshelf, but never read? The Coltrane/Hartman LP was only marginally less sparkling. i think lots of people are stronger fans of other music than Classical or Jazz, yet have some in their collections, and its rarely played (put on summ Skinnnard, maaaan). i do have a question post about the Pretenders LPs & Sire records coming up though.

My Granddad, who started me on this love of a vast array of music, had no better than a closing top, detachable stereo-speaker Silvertone. This leads me to believe that most consumers didn't enjoy the ownership of high end gear. He could tell you everything about a violin, guitar, piano (he played all of them), but im not so sure the public at-large were very aware of high-end TTs and such, save for a small amount of people, exposed to it in the biz, or happened upon real vintage audiophile level gear. i so wish he could have heard his records on a system that would have really revealed them.

He had such a diverse love of music, as do i, and i am sure if he were aware of a better system, he either a.) would have bought it, or b.) wouldn't spend big on perceived frivolous items, having lived through the depression. He would only spend big on absolute necessity. Obviously kids like me had worse equipment, if we even had it, heads full of mush, and we had no clue in the beginning how delicately to treat these gems. Once the partying age arrived, my LPs were made into mixtapes to serve as background party music, so i've not wrecked any music due to substances...other than my own singing, a coupla times.

ok, more than a couple

Cheers!

—dave

I enjoy listening to records while intoxicated and manage to avoid damaging them. Of course, once you pass a certain point, digital makes more sense.

We can all be quite please that a spinning LP has quite a bit of centrifugal force, that helped eliminate the vast amount of vinyl with burn spots due to a hot seed which popped out of the bong. Just imagine how many LP's would have been held worthless.

Most classical listeners would not have to worry about such things. I have to disagree with the other poster who thinks classical listeners purchased LP's to sit on shelves to impress the Jones's, sounds like a class war assumption to me.