Anyone changed out RS 2.5 tweeter cap?

idadude

Super Member
Has anyone changed out their RS 2.5 tweeter capacitor or inductor and is pleased with the results?

I'm looking at upgrading mine and would like to hear about what others have done and what they think of the change.

Larry D.
 
It's a high quality poly cap so I don't really see the point. Also, because the tweeter has only a three position level adjustment, replacing the original cap with one with a different ESR could mess up the level balance between the drivers. I have bypassed the entire crossover and gone with a triamped setup with a three way electronic crossover. That works great and is easier to do than you might think.
 
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Electronic crossover?

I have bypassed the entire crossover and gone with a triamped setup with a three way electronic crossover. That works great and is easier to do than you might think.

I would like to try out an electronic crossover, but I know very little about them and which one might work well with the 2.5s. What companies make a good 3-way and what are you using?

Larry D.
 
Another question....

Also wondered how you level the balance between the drivers with an electronic crossover. Is it all done by ear?

Larry D.
 
Also wondered how you level the balance between the drivers with an electronic crossover. Is it all done by ear?

Larry D.

By ear is how I do it, yes. I biamp my RS 2.5 via a Bryston 10b Active Crossover, with astonishingly sweet results. Mega improvement, many orders of magnitude. Worth every penny, and more.
 

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Also wondered how you level the balance between the drivers with an electronic crossover. Is it all done by ear?

Larry D.

I suppose you could use a mic and a computer but it's very easy to use your ears to set levels between the drivers.
 
Why complicate things with mics, computers, and added expenses? Don't want to do that. I think I have a good enough ear to balance out the levels.
I do have a sensitivity to peaks in the upper midrange that translate into harshness/ brightness. Love to hear all the details in a piece of music without the fatigue. Is it possible to control those peaks with an electronic crossover? (I used to have to research to find the right speaker & amp capacitors which would not accentuate the upper midrange peaks).
Would an electronic crossover give me a linear frequency output with the RS 2.5s that would allow me to enjoy the music more than with the passive crossover? I'm trying to understand the benefits of the electronic crossover over the passive one.

Larry D.
 
^^^^^^
You can zero in on peaks with a parametric equalizer and 1st reflection room treatment.
 
Why complicate things with mics, computers, and added expenses? Don't want to do that. I think I have a good enough ear to balance out the levels.
I do have a sensitivity to peaks in the upper midrange that translate into harshness/ brightness. Love to hear all the details in a piece of music without the fatigue. Is it possible to control those peaks with an electronic crossover? (I used to have to research to find the right speaker & amp capacitors which would not accentuate the upper midrange peaks).
Would an electronic crossover give me a linear frequency output with the RS 2.5s that would allow me to enjoy the music more than with the passive crossover? I'm trying to understand the benefits of the electronic crossover over the passive one.

Larry D.

Any 3 way 2nd order stereo EC will work if it has the right points.The one in my sig cost under $100 and works fine.
 
Would an active crossover give me a linear frequency output with the RS 2.5s that would allow me to enjoy the music more than with the passive crossover? I'm trying to understand the benefits of the electronic crossover over the passive one.

Larry D.

Yes, in a big way, if properly done.
 
Okay, fill me in on tying in an active crossover.....

I'm very interested in going the active crossover route with the RS 2.5s, so how do I do it? With the dual voice coils in the woofer how do I hook those up correctly?
Do I totally bypass everything in the passive crossover and hook up directly to the speaker terminals? Is there some re-wiring to do, if so, what is it that needs to be done?
What is a good 3-way active crossover that works well with the 2.5s? With a 2-way such s the Bryston 10-B, how do you hook it up?
There are a lot of unanswered questions that I haven't even asked yet, but it is unclear to me how to do this and I don't want to just throw money at something just to find out that I bought the wrong thing or now I have something I do not know how to properly implement.
Educate me on how to get the best sound out of the RS 2.5s with an active crossover. I'd say that this is all Greek to me, except I know a little Greek, but active crossovers are a mystery to me. Fill me in......

Larry D.
 
It's a three way speaker. Get a three way crossover and three amps and you're done. The original slopes are 12dB/octave which is a very common setup for ECs. Just make sure the two crossover points are the same, or at least pretty close, to the originals. If you want, you can keep the Watkins crossover bits in place and drive both woofer coils, but I just drive the 4 ohm ohm coil directly, roll off the bass at 50 Hz and go into my sub swarm. I'm pretty sure 2.5's can't sound much better than this setup. I have to say they sound damn good stock driven by one big amp. I always do mods like this one speaker at a time and compare the new setup to the original (I trust Arnie's ears). When everything is adjusted properly the tri-amped speaker should sound almost identical to the original, or you've done something wrong. The main difference for me is more punch in the upper bass. I've undone all this and have them back to the original configuration and use them in my guest bedroom now, but it was a fun experiment. If you're good with schematics, you can leave everything in place and use three jumpers and unsolder one coil to bypass the entire passive crossover, but I'm NOT going to help you do that.
 
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Personally I would swap the caps. The originals are old, and since they were used cap technology has improved significantly. My choice, and what I used in my RS 9 Kappas are Mundorf Supremes. Alternately you can use Obbligato Golds. Both of which provide an exceptional improvement in sound quality.
 
Seems to be getting complicated and spendy.

Now I'm waffling on the electronic crossover idea. In addition to the EC I would also have to buy two more amplifiers. Ouch! Maybe upgrading the caps would work for now, then I can save up later to get an EC and a couple more amps.

Larry D.
 
I'm don't believe in magic caps, but a change that that will make a significant measurable difference is the Graz diaphragm upgrade. Not cheap, but at least it's really doing something; lower distortion and more headroom. Bypassing the series woofer cap and electronically rolling them off at 50Hz into a sub or two (or five!) makes a huge improvement as well, and is probably the most cost effective upgrade of all. If you do decide to upgrade your caps, make sure you do them one at a time and compare the new to the old. If the ESR of the new caps are different from the originals, your tweeters will be brighter or duller. If you think you are a better speaker designer than Arnie Nudell, then go for it.
 
Actually, capacitors can make a huge difference. But, like all other changes, the speakers have to be in an environment where the changes can be appreciated and recognized. Changing caps doesn't change the design of the speaker- it can change the voicing, usually for the better with speakers of this age.

For changes like that to be really effective, and worth the money you spend, they should be done in concert with other improvements that can aggregate into a 'total' change that can be extremely meaningful in the musicality of the speaker.

idadude, the 2.5's are set up for bi-amping in their stock form. That's what the "BiAmp" switch on top is for. I believe the instructions for doing this in the manual are posted on infinity-classics.de.
 
Nudell engineering or not.......

I've never had a cap change make a loudness/volume difference in any speaker that I've upgraded the caps in. Every time an upgrade was made with better grade caps I've heard a change for the better in the categories of clarity, accuracy, and dynamics..... not a difference in volume.

Most of the upgrades were changing from electrolytics to poly caps and I never detected that the cap change ever caused that driver to then overpower the others. I have changed out some cheaper poly or mylar caps before and have heard a notable difference, but never heard that affect the sound level output of that driver, only a difference in quality of sound.

Looking at the cheapo tweeter cap in the 2.5 and saying I should leave it in there (if you're not bi or tri-amping) makes no sense to me. When you have all high quality components upstream of the speaker and consequently run a high quality signal through that puny, flattened, out of spec cap, am I expecting to hear the best quality high frequency reproduction possible? No. I know it can be better with upgraded quality parts. I have experienced that 'better' difference many times over. Better parts = better sound.

I have a local audio friend that has just bought a Beringer (?) 3-way crossover and is going to use it on his Maggies. I will check out his results and listen to what he thinks of using an active crossover. Maybe I can borrow it and a couple of his amps.

Larry D.
 
I've never had a cap change make a loudness/volume difference in any speaker that I've upgraded the caps in. Every time an upgrade was made with better grade caps I've heard a change for the better in the categories of clarity, accuracy, and dynamics..... not a difference in volume.

Most of the upgrades were changing from electrolytics to poly caps and I never detected that the cap change ever caused that driver to then overpower the others. I have changed out some cheaper poly or mylar caps before and have heard a notable difference, but never heard that affect the sound level output of that driver, only a difference in quality of sound.

Looking at the cheapo tweeter cap in the 2.5 and saying I should leave it in there (if you're not bi or tri-amping) makes no sense to me. When you have all high quality components upstream of the speaker and consequently run a high quality signal through that puny, flattened, out of spec cap, am I expecting to hear the best quality high frequency reproduction possible? No. I know it can be better with upgraded quality parts. I have experienced that 'better' difference many times over. Better parts = better sound.

100% agreement from me on all of this. The notion of a minutely small difference in ESR of a capacitor throwing off the balance of a speaker is simply absurd. If one were to follow that logic, then every single driver could not be so much as .1 ohm difference from its counterpart. This, of course, would defy all production realities of past and present drivers.

Upgrade the capacitors, make a host of other improvements on the speakers, let the improvements amalgamate into a total overall improvement, and enjoy the heightened quality and involvement of the music. Just like you said.
 
Geoff...

I knew what you meant. I don't always say things exactly the way I mean them. Good communication is an art. Sometimes (maybe a lot of times) I leave out a few brush strokes myself.

I'm sure that Infinity succumbed to the bean counters and compromised in areas where they could have put in better quality parts, but they did produce a fine sounding product with the RS 2.5. Can't say I would be unhappy with a totally original stock product, but I've already experienced a much better sounding midrange since I've changed out the parallel 75 & 50uf electrolytics and put in single 122uf Solen poly caps. I couldn't pass them up for around $15 each.

I think we can make improvements to these fine speakers whether it be upgrading crossover components or inserting an active crossover and amping them up. The 2.5s are definitely worthy of tweaking/upgrading. A fellow enthusiast once told me to not waste my time trying to make some mediocre piece of equipment sound like the top of the line stuff, but to start with something that was already very good and make it into something great. I think that is all we are trying to do.

Larry D.
 
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