SleeperSupra
Super Member
Here is what was supposed to be a quick review of my new Infinity Kappa 8.2i Series II vs. the old trusty Thiel CS2’s...
Let me first start out by telling you what I listen to and what I have for equipment.
I listen to a wide variety of music consisting of mostly rock, alternative, heavy metal, blues, pop, and country, with a little folk, R&B, rap, and classical thrown in on occasion.
My receiver is an Onkyo Integra TXDS-939. It was their flag ship receiver back in 1996 and has Dolby Digital 5.1 surround, DTS, THX, 110 watts per channel X 5, it's rated as being four ohm stable, and it's being used as a preamp/tuner and to power my rear speakers. A Sony DVP-CX985v, 400 disc progressive scan DVD, CD, Super Audio CD player, Sony 707ESD cd player, and Monster cables and interconnects. I have three Soundcraftsmen amplifiers rated at 250 watt per channel at 8 ohms, 375 watts per channel at 4 ohms, and they are rated as two ohm stable. I have two of the big beasts driving the Infinity’s in a biamped configuration with each channel driving just under a 3 ohm load and the third amp being used as a dedicated subwoofer amp. I have two subs with 4 ohm 12” drivers from a pair of Legacy Audio Focus speakers and 15” passive radiators in five cubic foot enclosures.
The Infinity Kappa 8.2i Series II, introduced in 1992, is probably one of the last great speakers designed by Arnie Nudell before he left Infinity and went to work for Genesis. It’s a four way design built with a box that is wider in the front than in the rear (I presume to stop internal standing waves), is coupled to my floor with four floor spikes, and the cabinet is ported to the rear. The drivers consist of a 30.5cm IMG woofer, a 15cm IMG midbass coupler, a 7.6cm Polydome midrange, and a 28mm Series II EMIT-R tweeter.
The specs for the Kappa’s are (to the best of my knowledge): Frequency Response of 32 Hz - 35 kHz (+ /- 2 db), sensitivity is 89 db, impedance is rated at 6 ohms (seem to be a much more difficult load on my amplifiers than my 6 ohm Thiel’s, and I even ran my amps bridged mono to them), Bi-wire inputs, recommended input power is 40-300 watts per channel. Their size is kind of imposing at 43x30x123cm, and they weigh in at a hefty 80 pounds each.
Placement of the 8.2i’s was a little difficult at first because of the sheer size, and weight. I noticed that if placed with their backs too close to the wall they became quite boomey, but after pulling them both 3 ½’ out they smoothed out and became really detailed and focused.
The first thing I noticed when I played the Kappa’s is you will need to have an amplifier(s) with very high current capability and at least 200 watts per channel to really make them perform. My Soundcraftsmen amps sound very clean and powerful driving them but a little more power is always a nice thing to have. At first I had the speakers horizontally biamped but the Soundcraftsmen amp that was pushing the lows didn’t like that very much and would sometimes shut down during demanding passages, all the while sounding perfectly clean and effortless even to the point of the amp shutting down. I now have the Infinity’s vertically biamped and the amps never shut down.
The Kappa's play all types of material with amazing soundstage, depth, resolution, clarity, and detail. The big Infinity's have awesome highs without being harsh, and an upper air about them I haven’t heard in many speakers.
You can crank it up with these speakers and you never notice even a hint of distortion or loss of resolution. Where most speakers seem to sound compressed, often smearing the instruments together and losing their detail, the Kappa’s sound clean and coherent at all listening levels.
The 8.2i’s excel at reproducing low frequencies. Where most speakers really seem to have problems is with reproducing that lowest octave without sounding like there is something missing, or worse yet sounding bloated, slow, or boomey. The Kappa’s pull this off with out a sweat, having a very good grip on bass detail. The Kappa’s sound clean, full, detailed, fast, and dynamic in my 32x18x12 room. A subwoofer is not needed although with the subs going I do get a little more usable low end. The subs integrate well with the 8.2i’s although I leave them off for most music.
The Infinity Kappa 8.2i Series II speakers are incredibly smooth and natural sounding, with an air about them that I haven’t heard except in some Martin Logan’s, Apogee's, and an old pair of Infinity Quantum 3’s that are sitting in my garage and are in bad need of new crossovers, EMIT’s, and a woofer refoam.
The sound of the Infinity Kappa 8.2i Series II is very different than that of my Thiel CS2 speakers.
The Thiel CS2’s, first introduced in 1988, are a three way, front ported, Coherent Source speaker design that uses a Phase Correct first order six dB per octave crossover network, a sloping front to time-align the drivers, and a molded front baffle to minimize diffraction effects. The drivers the Thiel's use are a die-cast magnesium basket, polypropylene cone, butyl rubber surround, 210mm Vifa built woofer that has a very long voice coil in a short-gap. This unique motor structure allows a constant amount of coil to remain in the magnetic gap during long excursions so there is low distortion while reproducing bass tones at high volume. The CS2 uses a specially coated, die-cast magnesium basket, Thiel built, 100mm cone midrange with a half roll butyl rubber surround that has a bandwidth of over seven octaves. The tweeter is a Dynaudio D20 28mm soft dome type that has a very large magnet, a light diaphragm, and a vented center pole piece for superior cooling and high power handling. The tweeter is rated to over 35 KHz and sounds very smooth and natural. The cabinets are over 30mm thick and are coupled to the floor with three carpet spikes.
The specs for the Thiel’s are: Frequency response of 36Hz-22KHz (+/- 3 db), and 38hz-20KHz (+/- 2 db), sensitivity is 87 db at 1 watt/meter, impedance is rated at 6 ohms (I always thought they were 4 ohm speakers until I drug out the manual, also the speakers measure at 5.6 ohms). Recommended input power is 40-250 watts RMS. The CS2’s dimensions are 31x31x100 cm, and they weigh in at a hefty 62 lbs each.
The CS2’s are a much more dynamic sounding speaker in the midrange department, quite possibly more forward is the word to use when describing their sound, not that this is necessarily a bad thing. They sound really clean but if you like to really crank it up there is a point where the CS2's do tend to sound compressed. At low and mid volume levels the vocals that the Thiel’s reproduce sound more natural and real than the Kappa's. The Thiel’s are a very revealing speaker. There are a lot of recordings that can make the CS2’s sound a little irritating. I think the Thiel’s are very picky with your upstream equipment and with the material that is being played while the Infinity’s are a very forgiving speaker.
With the Thiel’s a bad recording will show all of its flaws and a good recording will simply amaze you. With the Thiel's every time you buy better amplification or cables there really is an audible difference.
The Thiel’s are a VERY accurate speaker although they do lack the ultimate depth and presence of low bass and in direct comparison they sometimes sound a little rolled off in the highs compared to the Infinity's.
With the Infinity’s I am almost always amazed by the full sound. They seem very close to being the total package. I do have a couple of little gripes. The cabinets of the Kappa’s are not built as solid as those of the CS2 and it shows through as causing them to sometimes sound colored in their reproduction of lower midbass.
In contrast the cabinets of the Thiel’s are of the highest quality and are much better built than those of the Kappa’s. At times while listening to the big Kappa’s I am reminded that I am listening to a box.
With the Thiel’s I am never aware of the cabinet, I think this is in part due to the 30mm thick cabinet walls of the CS2’s and the use of heavy internal bracing that virtually eliminates any energy storage problems that can obscure subtle musical detail and muddy the sound.
With the Kappa's, I would also like a more focused, detailed, and fuller midrange sound.
The Thiel’s just seem to have more focus, detail, dynamic range, and impact through the mids. One of the reasons is the Thiel’s have a unique grill that has a precisely shaped baffle board attached to it that is designed so that the energy of the drivers will not interact with the edges of the cabinet.
Overall the Thiel’s are probably the better of the two in the tonal balance department. As far as imaging it’s kind of a tossup with the Thiel’s having a tighter focus, but in overall dynamics, soundstage, and the ability to just sit, listen, and enjoy the music the Kappa’s win out, or at least for now...
It’s been a fun couple of weeks listening to both pair of speakers.
I’ll post again in the future…
Let me first start out by telling you what I listen to and what I have for equipment.
I listen to a wide variety of music consisting of mostly rock, alternative, heavy metal, blues, pop, and country, with a little folk, R&B, rap, and classical thrown in on occasion.
My receiver is an Onkyo Integra TXDS-939. It was their flag ship receiver back in 1996 and has Dolby Digital 5.1 surround, DTS, THX, 110 watts per channel X 5, it's rated as being four ohm stable, and it's being used as a preamp/tuner and to power my rear speakers. A Sony DVP-CX985v, 400 disc progressive scan DVD, CD, Super Audio CD player, Sony 707ESD cd player, and Monster cables and interconnects. I have three Soundcraftsmen amplifiers rated at 250 watt per channel at 8 ohms, 375 watts per channel at 4 ohms, and they are rated as two ohm stable. I have two of the big beasts driving the Infinity’s in a biamped configuration with each channel driving just under a 3 ohm load and the third amp being used as a dedicated subwoofer amp. I have two subs with 4 ohm 12” drivers from a pair of Legacy Audio Focus speakers and 15” passive radiators in five cubic foot enclosures.
The Infinity Kappa 8.2i Series II, introduced in 1992, is probably one of the last great speakers designed by Arnie Nudell before he left Infinity and went to work for Genesis. It’s a four way design built with a box that is wider in the front than in the rear (I presume to stop internal standing waves), is coupled to my floor with four floor spikes, and the cabinet is ported to the rear. The drivers consist of a 30.5cm IMG woofer, a 15cm IMG midbass coupler, a 7.6cm Polydome midrange, and a 28mm Series II EMIT-R tweeter.
The specs for the Kappa’s are (to the best of my knowledge): Frequency Response of 32 Hz - 35 kHz (+ /- 2 db), sensitivity is 89 db, impedance is rated at 6 ohms (seem to be a much more difficult load on my amplifiers than my 6 ohm Thiel’s, and I even ran my amps bridged mono to them), Bi-wire inputs, recommended input power is 40-300 watts per channel. Their size is kind of imposing at 43x30x123cm, and they weigh in at a hefty 80 pounds each.
Placement of the 8.2i’s was a little difficult at first because of the sheer size, and weight. I noticed that if placed with their backs too close to the wall they became quite boomey, but after pulling them both 3 ½’ out they smoothed out and became really detailed and focused.
The first thing I noticed when I played the Kappa’s is you will need to have an amplifier(s) with very high current capability and at least 200 watts per channel to really make them perform. My Soundcraftsmen amps sound very clean and powerful driving them but a little more power is always a nice thing to have. At first I had the speakers horizontally biamped but the Soundcraftsmen amp that was pushing the lows didn’t like that very much and would sometimes shut down during demanding passages, all the while sounding perfectly clean and effortless even to the point of the amp shutting down. I now have the Infinity’s vertically biamped and the amps never shut down.
The Kappa's play all types of material with amazing soundstage, depth, resolution, clarity, and detail. The big Infinity's have awesome highs without being harsh, and an upper air about them I haven’t heard in many speakers.
You can crank it up with these speakers and you never notice even a hint of distortion or loss of resolution. Where most speakers seem to sound compressed, often smearing the instruments together and losing their detail, the Kappa’s sound clean and coherent at all listening levels.
The 8.2i’s excel at reproducing low frequencies. Where most speakers really seem to have problems is with reproducing that lowest octave without sounding like there is something missing, or worse yet sounding bloated, slow, or boomey. The Kappa’s pull this off with out a sweat, having a very good grip on bass detail. The Kappa’s sound clean, full, detailed, fast, and dynamic in my 32x18x12 room. A subwoofer is not needed although with the subs going I do get a little more usable low end. The subs integrate well with the 8.2i’s although I leave them off for most music.
The Infinity Kappa 8.2i Series II speakers are incredibly smooth and natural sounding, with an air about them that I haven’t heard except in some Martin Logan’s, Apogee's, and an old pair of Infinity Quantum 3’s that are sitting in my garage and are in bad need of new crossovers, EMIT’s, and a woofer refoam.
The sound of the Infinity Kappa 8.2i Series II is very different than that of my Thiel CS2 speakers.
The Thiel CS2’s, first introduced in 1988, are a three way, front ported, Coherent Source speaker design that uses a Phase Correct first order six dB per octave crossover network, a sloping front to time-align the drivers, and a molded front baffle to minimize diffraction effects. The drivers the Thiel's use are a die-cast magnesium basket, polypropylene cone, butyl rubber surround, 210mm Vifa built woofer that has a very long voice coil in a short-gap. This unique motor structure allows a constant amount of coil to remain in the magnetic gap during long excursions so there is low distortion while reproducing bass tones at high volume. The CS2 uses a specially coated, die-cast magnesium basket, Thiel built, 100mm cone midrange with a half roll butyl rubber surround that has a bandwidth of over seven octaves. The tweeter is a Dynaudio D20 28mm soft dome type that has a very large magnet, a light diaphragm, and a vented center pole piece for superior cooling and high power handling. The tweeter is rated to over 35 KHz and sounds very smooth and natural. The cabinets are over 30mm thick and are coupled to the floor with three carpet spikes.
The specs for the Thiel’s are: Frequency response of 36Hz-22KHz (+/- 3 db), and 38hz-20KHz (+/- 2 db), sensitivity is 87 db at 1 watt/meter, impedance is rated at 6 ohms (I always thought they were 4 ohm speakers until I drug out the manual, also the speakers measure at 5.6 ohms). Recommended input power is 40-250 watts RMS. The CS2’s dimensions are 31x31x100 cm, and they weigh in at a hefty 62 lbs each.
The CS2’s are a much more dynamic sounding speaker in the midrange department, quite possibly more forward is the word to use when describing their sound, not that this is necessarily a bad thing. They sound really clean but if you like to really crank it up there is a point where the CS2's do tend to sound compressed. At low and mid volume levels the vocals that the Thiel’s reproduce sound more natural and real than the Kappa's. The Thiel’s are a very revealing speaker. There are a lot of recordings that can make the CS2’s sound a little irritating. I think the Thiel’s are very picky with your upstream equipment and with the material that is being played while the Infinity’s are a very forgiving speaker.
With the Thiel’s a bad recording will show all of its flaws and a good recording will simply amaze you. With the Thiel's every time you buy better amplification or cables there really is an audible difference.
The Thiel’s are a VERY accurate speaker although they do lack the ultimate depth and presence of low bass and in direct comparison they sometimes sound a little rolled off in the highs compared to the Infinity's.
With the Infinity’s I am almost always amazed by the full sound. They seem very close to being the total package. I do have a couple of little gripes. The cabinets of the Kappa’s are not built as solid as those of the CS2 and it shows through as causing them to sometimes sound colored in their reproduction of lower midbass.
In contrast the cabinets of the Thiel’s are of the highest quality and are much better built than those of the Kappa’s. At times while listening to the big Kappa’s I am reminded that I am listening to a box.
With the Thiel’s I am never aware of the cabinet, I think this is in part due to the 30mm thick cabinet walls of the CS2’s and the use of heavy internal bracing that virtually eliminates any energy storage problems that can obscure subtle musical detail and muddy the sound.
With the Kappa's, I would also like a more focused, detailed, and fuller midrange sound.
The Thiel’s just seem to have more focus, detail, dynamic range, and impact through the mids. One of the reasons is the Thiel’s have a unique grill that has a precisely shaped baffle board attached to it that is designed so that the energy of the drivers will not interact with the edges of the cabinet.
Overall the Thiel’s are probably the better of the two in the tonal balance department. As far as imaging it’s kind of a tossup with the Thiel’s having a tighter focus, but in overall dynamics, soundstage, and the ability to just sit, listen, and enjoy the music the Kappa’s win out, or at least for now...
It’s been a fun couple of weeks listening to both pair of speakers.
I’ll post again in the future…
How did the internal dampening work out?
