I just did some reading on a e-bay site about a fellow who is selling "upgrade" kits for the RS-1B's and other Infinities with emit,emin drivers.The "upgrade" replaces the emins with a Planar Focus Technology driver, made by Sonigistix Corp., also used the brand name of "Monsoon".Also part of the "upgrade is a different X-over the runs all the emits at one desired freq. and the emins all at a desired freq., not like how each emin now has different freq. for select drivers and also with the emits.Has any bodyelse heard of this the the fellow how E-mail name is MichaelAlanMarks?Thought I would throw this out there, Randy.
Mods to RS-1B
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Charivari
Fighting Naïve Realism
I've exchanged a few emails with Michael in the past and know someone who regularly trades several emails with him per day. He's a nice fellow with a great deal of knowledge and experience when it comes to Infinities amongst other brands, though this has made him a bit forceful in character at times as per usual. It would take the best collections here at AK to challenge what he currently plays with let alone what all he's had extensive use of. I too wondered about those modifications, but I believe that his claims are likely true and that these are an upgrade. Though, they'll likely reduce the speakers' value just due to the general concern about the new and unknown. Just to note, the seller has two complete IRS systems to compare his modded 1bs to in addition to being a fan of the RS-1bs and with this mod has attempted to bring the smaller system's sonics closer to those of the monster reference.
Of course, if you've more questions, just shoot him an email.
- JP
Kencat
Super Member
It would definitely be advantageous for a potential buyer to audition the modded 1B's before buying. I can see where one would be concerned about what that "new" sound would be like. If it is a great improvement then it may be a mod that may catch on.
We need a member (with good ears) to do a review
(It's good that you chimed in JP. The poor guy was about to get some bad press I think.)
We need a member (with good ears) to do a review
(It's good that you chimed in JP. The poor guy was about to get some bad press I think.)
beemer
Vintage Graduate
Dr. Marks came to my home some years ago to conclude a business deal. He loves his Infinities but he also knows how to make a buck. The "upgrade" for the RSIb is $999 and he keeps 14 EMIMS ans 6 Emits, not to mention the passive xovers from the bottom of the mid/tweeter towers.
Myself I would NEVER consider this mod with Monsoon planar drivers. There are MANY good crossover mods for the RSIb, and RSIIx, that do not involve driver replacement. Keep in mind that the Infinity IRS uses the very same EMIMS and EMITS as the RSIx and many other Infinity high-end speakers.
Best,
Paul :thmbsp:
Charivari
Fighting Naïve Realism
I didn't realize the good doctor kept the EMIMs; I had thought the upgrade was a kit containing the drivers.
Yes, the RS-1b uses the same 902-0012-D EMIM as the IRS and therein lies the problem. Both models were discovered in reviews to have integration issues between the EMIMs and the bass towers. Basically, the drivers are crossed in too low and are strained to fill the gap, but do not entirely succeed. Trouble is the bass towers don't behave well enough to be crossed in higher to correct the issue. As such, the midbass performance is surprisingly poor for the calibre of the sound overall. Such is why the Beta with its midbass L-EMIMs was hinted at in reviews as besting the IRS V in performance in a domestic setting and possessing greater coherence albeit without the line source advantages and maximum dynamic capability of the monster reference.
Something needs to either fill in the gap or different drivers should be used that are better for midbass performance. Perhaps such is why the Monsoon drivers are chosen, they may be better able to handle the sub-200Hz frequencies than the original EMIMs. At the very least these kind of odd spread point source speakers with the modifications would become a short line source -- and I am partial of line sources anymore.
Just providing a counterpoint.
- JP
Yes, the RS-1b uses the same 902-0012-D EMIM as the IRS and therein lies the problem. Both models were discovered in reviews to have integration issues between the EMIMs and the bass towers. Basically, the drivers are crossed in too low and are strained to fill the gap, but do not entirely succeed. Trouble is the bass towers don't behave well enough to be crossed in higher to correct the issue. As such, the midbass performance is surprisingly poor for the calibre of the sound overall. Such is why the Beta with its midbass L-EMIMs was hinted at in reviews as besting the IRS V in performance in a domestic setting and possessing greater coherence albeit without the line source advantages and maximum dynamic capability of the monster reference.
Something needs to either fill in the gap or different drivers should be used that are better for midbass performance. Perhaps such is why the Monsoon drivers are chosen, they may be better able to handle the sub-200Hz frequencies than the original EMIMs. At the very least these kind of odd spread point source speakers with the modifications would become a short line source -- and I am partial of line sources anymore.
Just providing a counterpoint.
- JP
beemer
Vintage Graduate
This above from the auction description for the upgrade.
JP, we are both on the same page. Yes I notice a small "hole" in the sound of my RSIb's in the lower mids, This issues has been well-documented over the years.....however the big picture still looks very good~!
As to line sources/line arrays.... I have Pipedream reference 18's in the main system. IMHO nothing sounds better than a well-executed line array, although some of my listening buds bitch that the sound is "bigger than life".
Best,
Paul :thmbsp:
Well, look at that, alot of AKers know of him and I thought this was something new.So as far as the upgraded sound of the mods go no one has heard it yet?Also I would never give up the original drivers and X-overs from my IIb's.A guy might be willing to try the "upgrades" only on a trial basis, but what I took from the writeup he has is the speaks would play louder which to me isn't what I consider a improvement.Right know the IIb's play loud enough as is, to me a improvement is to have more detail, soundstage, bass impact at lower volumes when can sit and still talk with company.So right now I don't think most Infinities need much improving, or can be improved on at this aspect.Randy
Vitopanch
Super Member
I also know of him very well. He has money, knows how to make money, does love Infinities and has opinions which although respected, I differ with regarding EMIM and EMIT configs. I also think that the so called upgrade is a very poor deal financially and only based upon his musical opinion, of which many folks, myself included disagree.
Vito
Vito
Arkay
Lunatic Member
Odd that this guy just loves Infinities, and offers an upgrade that gives him large numbers of original spare drivers for vintage Infinities, while putting money in his pocket.
I would LOVE to find modern replacements that I could sell at break-even, let along at a profit, which would simultaneously give me multiple EMIMs and EMITS for each transaction! Build a few cases, pop those drivers in... I'd do that kind of deal for HEIL AMTs, too! :yes:
Not suggesting anything sinister here, just musing and wondering... after all, he COULD HAVE offered it as an upgrade kit, without requiring trade-in of the old drivers! It does make one wonder. :scratch2:
I would LOVE to find modern replacements that I could sell at break-even, let along at a profit, which would simultaneously give me multiple EMIMs and EMITS for each transaction! Build a few cases, pop those drivers in... I'd do that kind of deal for HEIL AMTs, too! :yes:
Not suggesting anything sinister here, just musing and wondering... after all, he COULD HAVE offered it as an upgrade kit, without requiring trade-in of the old drivers! It does make one wonder. :scratch2:
Vitopanch
Super Member
MagicMarksy
Member
From The Horse Himself:
Hi all. Nice to see so many people talking about me. I am sincere in my wanting to help. Most of you know I am a medical doctor. You all must realise I make much more money as a doctor than I do selling Hi Fi equipment. I do the Hi Fi stuff because I love it. I started doing it in High School and just never stopped. People from all over the world send me stuff to repair and I often repair it and send them back to them prepaid with a bill. Funny, no one yet has stiffed me. Anyway, I have built and rebuilt Infinity and other ribbon speakers sice 1982 when I imported Strathern ribbons directly from Northern Ireland and built QRS 1D systems while in Medical School. Frankly, I know I am onto something here. My RS1B upgrade is incredable.
Those of you that want the upgrade and want to keep your old parts, that is fine with me. I offer the same upgrade both ways. With or without a parts trade in.
I own some incredable stereo gear, including but not limited to the following: Infinity IRS Series III's, Infinity IRS Series V's, Apogee DIVA's, RS 1B's (stock and modified), Yamaha NS1000M, Krell MDA 500's, Krell KSA 250's, Krell KSA 150's, Aragon 4004 Mk II, Aragon2 2004 Mk II, Krell KBX, Bryston 10B-LR, Yamaha D2040, California Audio Labs CL-15 Balanced, Sony PCM 601ESD, Yamaha AD2x, Nakamachi Dragon, Day Sequerra Reference (w/Panalizer), Sequerra Model 1, Parasound TD1600, Parasound PLD1100, Jeff Rowland Consumate, Jeff Rowland Consumate Balanced Phono Preamp, Krell Reference Phono Preamp, Goldmund Reference, Goldmund Studio, Koetsu Urshi, Koetsu Rosewood Signature, Koetsu Rosewood...just to name a few. Does anyone out there have equipment that compares? If so let me hear from you.
Michael AKA: MagicMarksy
Odd that this guy just loves Infinities, and offers an upgrade that gives him large numbers of original spare drivers for vintage Infinities, while putting money in his pocket.
I would LOVE to find modern replacements that I could sell at break-even, let along at a profit, which would simultaneously give me multiple EMIMs and EMITS for each transaction! Build a few cases, pop those drivers in... I'd do that kind of deal for HEIL AMTs, too! :yes:
Not suggesting anything sinister here, just musing and wondering... after all, he COULD HAVE offered it as an upgrade kit, without requiring trade-in of the old drivers! It does make one wonder. :scratch2:
Hi all. Nice to see so many people talking about me. I am sincere in my wanting to help. Most of you know I am a medical doctor. You all must realise I make much more money as a doctor than I do selling Hi Fi equipment. I do the Hi Fi stuff because I love it. I started doing it in High School and just never stopped. People from all over the world send me stuff to repair and I often repair it and send them back to them prepaid with a bill. Funny, no one yet has stiffed me. Anyway, I have built and rebuilt Infinity and other ribbon speakers sice 1982 when I imported Strathern ribbons directly from Northern Ireland and built QRS 1D systems while in Medical School. Frankly, I know I am onto something here. My RS1B upgrade is incredable.
Those of you that want the upgrade and want to keep your old parts, that is fine with me. I offer the same upgrade both ways. With or without a parts trade in.
I own some incredable stereo gear, including but not limited to the following: Infinity IRS Series III's, Infinity IRS Series V's, Apogee DIVA's, RS 1B's (stock and modified), Yamaha NS1000M, Krell MDA 500's, Krell KSA 250's, Krell KSA 150's, Aragon 4004 Mk II, Aragon2 2004 Mk II, Krell KBX, Bryston 10B-LR, Yamaha D2040, California Audio Labs CL-15 Balanced, Sony PCM 601ESD, Yamaha AD2x, Nakamachi Dragon, Day Sequerra Reference (w/Panalizer), Sequerra Model 1, Parasound TD1600, Parasound PLD1100, Jeff Rowland Consumate, Jeff Rowland Consumate Balanced Phono Preamp, Krell Reference Phono Preamp, Goldmund Reference, Goldmund Studio, Koetsu Urshi, Koetsu Rosewood Signature, Koetsu Rosewood...just to name a few. Does anyone out there have equipment that compares? If so let me hear from you.
Michael AKA: MagicMarksy
Welcome to AK, Michael.
I've moved this discussion into a new thread, and I'm hoping you'll give us an idea of how the specs on the new drivers differ from the old, and how that affects the sound.
While advertising your business on AK isn't allowed, I also think you should have the right to comment on a discussion that's mostly about you.
I've moved this discussion into a new thread, and I'm hoping you'll give us an idea of how the specs on the new drivers differ from the old, and how that affects the sound.
While advertising your business on AK isn't allowed, I also think you should have the right to comment on a discussion that's mostly about you.
Charivari
Fighting Naïve Realism
Welcome Michael, nice to see you post here.
If you don't mind my asking some questions, what did you use for tweeters for the Stratherns in your QRS-1Ds? Or were those ?quasi-ribbon? drivers capable of high frequency extension? Coincidentally, the QRS-1D was the inspiration for my current set of speakers.
Out of curiosity, just what are the differences between the IRS III and the IRS V?
- JP
If you don't mind my asking some questions, what did you use for tweeters for the Stratherns in your QRS-1Ds? Or were those ?quasi-ribbon? drivers capable of high frequency extension? Coincidentally, the QRS-1D was the inspiration for my current set of speakers.
Out of curiosity, just what are the differences between the IRS III and the IRS V?
- JP
MagicMarksy
Member
More Ribbon Stuff
The Strathern's and for the most part all similar ribbons like the Carver's and the BG's for example have very good and flat high frequency extension. So in fact no tweeters are really needed. Where the compromise takes place is the larger midrange ribbon becomes somewhat dirrectional (beamy) at the high frequencies. So in fact what the addition of the tweeter does is not increase the frequency response, they increase the high frequency dispersion charteristics. As such I offered the system in 3 versions. No tweeters. Standard Infinity EMIT tweeters (the more the better) and my FAMOUS REBUILT DIPOLAR EMITS (where I take two EMIT's apart, and reassemble them FRONT TO FRONT to make them true DIPOLAR/BIPOLAR like the EMIM's and all the other midrange ribbons, for that matter). So it all depended on how much perfection you seeked and how much money you had to throw at your dream. My best effort back then used 3 Stratherns per side and 15 BIPOLAR rebuilt Infinity Half Line Source EMIT's per side (needed to start with 30 per side / 60 total to make the set). A best friend still owns them. They were built in 1982 and are still perfect and state of the art today. They are in Stamford, CT for whom ever wants to hear them. Another friend with different budgetory considerations still runs his without any tweeters at all. He also loves his and would not give them up for anything. He has also had his since 1982, he also still considers them STATE OF THE ART (no kidding) and still sound fantastic as well (he is in Wilmington, NC) for those of you want to hear them. Both enjoy company. Also, for those of you intereted in parts for building these or repairs I still have about 12 good STRATHERN's at my home in Clarksville,TN. Still in the box.
Yes please see above.
Great....as far as I am concerned all ribbons currently available today are really based on the original STRATHERN design. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some have more rows of magnets, some use a different diaphragm material, but they are all basically the same.
Main differences:
IRS III: Clear Polypropoline dual voice coil woofers, 1000W servo amp for the subwoofer column (188,000 uF total), Senerium (sp?) cobalt magnets in EMIM's and EMIT's.
IRS V's: Gray impregnated plastic single voice coil woofers, 2000W servo amp for the woofer column (376,000 uF total), Nyodenium (sp?) magnets in the midrange and tweeters.
Hope this helps.
The Strathern's and for the most part all similar ribbons like the Carver's and the BG's for example have very good and flat high frequency extension. So in fact no tweeters are really needed. Where the compromise takes place is the larger midrange ribbon becomes somewhat dirrectional (beamy) at the high frequencies. So in fact what the addition of the tweeter does is not increase the frequency response, they increase the high frequency dispersion charteristics. As such I offered the system in 3 versions. No tweeters. Standard Infinity EMIT tweeters (the more the better) and my FAMOUS REBUILT DIPOLAR EMITS (where I take two EMIT's apart, and reassemble them FRONT TO FRONT to make them true DIPOLAR/BIPOLAR like the EMIM's and all the other midrange ribbons, for that matter). So it all depended on how much perfection you seeked and how much money you had to throw at your dream. My best effort back then used 3 Stratherns per side and 15 BIPOLAR rebuilt Infinity Half Line Source EMIT's per side (needed to start with 30 per side / 60 total to make the set). A best friend still owns them. They were built in 1982 and are still perfect and state of the art today. They are in Stamford, CT for whom ever wants to hear them. Another friend with different budgetory considerations still runs his without any tweeters at all. He also loves his and would not give them up for anything. He has also had his since 1982, he also still considers them STATE OF THE ART (no kidding) and still sound fantastic as well (he is in Wilmington, NC) for those of you want to hear them. Both enjoy company. Also, for those of you intereted in parts for building these or repairs I still have about 12 good STRATHERN's at my home in Clarksville,TN. Still in the box.
Yes please see above.
Great....as far as I am concerned all ribbons currently available today are really based on the original STRATHERN design. Some are bigger, some are smaller, some have more rows of magnets, some use a different diaphragm material, but they are all basically the same.
Main differences:
IRS III: Clear Polypropoline dual voice coil woofers, 1000W servo amp for the subwoofer column (188,000 uF total), Senerium (sp?) cobalt magnets in EMIM's and EMIT's.
IRS V's: Gray impregnated plastic single voice coil woofers, 2000W servo amp for the woofer column (376,000 uF total), Nyodenium (sp?) magnets in the midrange and tweeters.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by a moderator:
MagicMarksy
Member
Hi,
The new drivers I use have a frequency response and a sensitivity that is very similar to the original EMIM's. It is not that the original EMIM's are bad....it is just that in the original RS1b design used 7 of them....so when you try to rebuild them without modifying the cabinet there is no way of getting all 7 EMIM's working together and getting the output of each one exactly the same (some are louder than others if you try to use all 7 of them or you have to add resistors to some of them and thus decrease their effeciency). Hence the need for an alternate solution. Once I found the MonSoon EMIRM's I knew I was onto something. (Frankly Brian Chaney of VMPS uses the exact same drivers.) They are just a little bit longer than the original EMIM's thus they extend slightly lower into the midbass. They use a state of the art design with Nyodenium magnets (most RS1B EMIM's have senerium cobalt magnets). They are rivited together and the diaphragm is better protected and less likely to become damaged over time. They are a little thinner thus I need to make a mounting plate to fit them into the old space of the original 7 EMIM's. However, the use of 6, instead of 7, allows me to place them in a series / parallel combination were all have the same exact output...hence the advantage. Finally I connect them directly to the amplifier speaker terminals with no coils or capacitors as crossover componets in between so you get their true sound....pure and simple with no loss in dampening factor, no crossover issues, and very importantly no phase shift.
Next this allows me to rewire the original 4 tweeters also in a series / parallel combination so they also each produce the exact same output as well. Lastly I balance the output of the tweeters with the output of the midranges with a resistor array on the tweeters, and use a 12 dB/Octave passive crossover to protect the tweeters from the lower midrange frequencies.
To finish off the set I make a new solid oak cover for the crossover box on the back of the RS1b MR/HF columns, put my new passive crossover inside, and install new very robust binding posts that are very easy to use.
My redesigned speakers are a true line source and a 3 way design.
I also prefer to replace the stanbdard Infinity active crossover with something better. My choice is the Krell KBX, the Bryston 10B-LR, or the Yamaha D2040. There are others that will work as well such as the RANE but they are clearly not as musical to my ears anyway.
I hope this helps. Please ask any more questions. I would be glad to answer them. I just can not say enough good things about this modification. It is truly the answer to this speakers problems.
Let me say one more thing about the RS 1B's. They look like a 3 way line source speaker but they are really a 6 way point source speaker. This design severly limits this speakers sound. I could go one for pages and pages as to why. Simply put this design limits power handling capability, increases distortion, and destroys the phase charactistics of the original speaker. All these issues are addressed with my 3 way line source redesign.
Also realize there are two groups of Infinity RS1B fans. Those that either never have owned a pair or only recently got them....most of these owners want the stock unmodified version....and those that have owned them for long enough to realize everything I have talked about above is true...it is those people that come to me for my upgrade and leave happy once I modify their previously sacrad speaker. [ Furthermore, my modification can be undone at any time without ever damaging the speaker and no one would ever know I was there - this is a very attractive feature].
Michael
MagicMarksy
Member
I would like to address another issue:
Why are line source speakers better sounding than point source speakers?
It is simple. Their are more drivers. More surface area for producting sound. Simply realize that for any given volume you can have a small diaphragm moving a large distance or a larger diaphragm moving a smaller distance. Both prodice the same volume but due to FRICTION and NON-LINEARITIES with longer excersions the small driver will always produce more distortion for any given volume than the larger driver.
Thus the more drivers you have the lower the distortion for any given volume (based on the principal above) and the greater the power handling capability overall and thus the louder it will go...and consequently the greater the dynamic range.
Thus my modification of the RS1b's that change it from a point source to a line source reduces the distortion at any given volume to about 1/6th the original level and about 1/4 the original level in the high frequencies. This produces a much sweeter, purer, more delicate sound at any given volume. It also allows the speakers to play 4X to 6X as loud as the original design should one ever wish that kind of volume.
The crossover resdesign eliminates most of the phase shift problems with the original design.
The lack of any crossover components between the amp and the midrange make it as sweet as possible and with NO PHASE SHIFT!
I can't see why not all of you do not see what I see and hear what I hear. I am only trying to help.
I have no other reason for doing this.
I am not doing this for the money....I am doing this because this is what I love to do with my free time.
Can't you all see that.
Show me one thing I have stated in any of my posts that is wrong.
There isn't anything. I am right and my redesign is a true and honest improvement in every aspect of the original design.
Michael
Ah hah, this sounds like the endless arguments between the classic car restorers who say it has to be original (even if they have a replacement part made as a copy), and us old hot rodders who say it was pretty good, but it can be improved.
They've never agreed since hot rodding was born, and I guess they won't. It's ying and yang. Now, for my $$ if it runs quicker and handles better, rides in a civilized fashion and looks/sounds cool - rock on. There is nothing man made that can't be improved !
We need some sound testing and some comparisons with real numbers so we can see what's going on here? We can not all travel to the east coast to demo speakers.
OBTW - if someone gave me a great old set of fine tall profile cabs with blown drivers, I'd be knocking on the Docs door for advice. Who knows what I'd end up with, but they would be sweet if it took me 10 years to hit the combo!! I'm not sure it would be his formula, he may hear a lot different than I do, but I'd be interested in what he has to say?
They've never agreed since hot rodding was born, and I guess they won't. It's ying and yang. Now, for my $$ if it runs quicker and handles better, rides in a civilized fashion and looks/sounds cool - rock on. There is nothing man made that can't be improved !
We need some sound testing and some comparisons with real numbers so we can see what's going on here? We can not all travel to the east coast to demo speakers.
OBTW - if someone gave me a great old set of fine tall profile cabs with blown drivers, I'd be knocking on the Docs door for advice. Who knows what I'd end up with, but they would be sweet if it took me 10 years to hit the combo!! I'm not sure it would be his formula, he may hear a lot different than I do, but I'd be interested in what he has to say?
