Thorens TD145 MkII Project

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

I recently acquired a Thorens TD-145 MkII, I have been wanting one of these for quite some time, primarily because I had been reading about the 145 and 160 series being the TT to modify, but before one can begin the modification process one must have a baseline for comparison. When the table arrived it was in pretty fair shape, the first thing I did was measure all of the bearing tolerances, the spindle bearing is great, the run out on it was less than .002 with a dry bearing well, and no movement with a full well. The bearings on the TP16 MkII arm needed just a small amount of adjustment. I installed a Shure M95ed and hooked it up to my system and have been spinning it now for a couple of weeks, I am very impressed with this table but I can see where some improvements can certainly be made, so I thought that I would share my odyssey with all of you, we will be doing one mod at a time then spending a week or two listening before we move on to the next, first up tuning the suspension and removing the foam inserts from the suspension springs. Here it is up and running all stock.

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

First we will invert the outer platter, lay the platter mat on top and take some measurements for reference, then remove the outer platter and the mat and more reference measurements (I hope to be able to put it back together again!)

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

Here are some views with the platter and arm wand removed.

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

Here is the underbelly of the beast, it is a wee bit more complicated than the 160.

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

Here are the springs and foam pads removed; I carefully marked each spring so as to return it to the stud that it was removed from, while I was doing this I found that a couple of the studs were slightly loose, they are easy to tighten back up with a small spanner wrench.

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

Once all of the springs, rubber grommets, and washers were cleaned and replaced, I elevated it on the high tech turn table stand shown in the pictures and proceeded to level the suspension without the belt installed, once I had roughed it in using the measurements that I had taken earlier, I started to check the bounce, carefully adjusting until I had a good straight up and down bounce and the platter was relatively level.

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

Now we install the belt,

invert the outer platter, put the platter mat, an old record, and anything else you might want to have on the platter as you are playing it, spin it up and see how the belt is riding on the pulley, it should center on the small bulge in the center of the pulley, mine was riding a bit low so I had to adjust the motor, there is one screw on the motor with a spring, simply loosen the other two and adjust the one with the spring (While the table is spinning) until your belt centers up in the pulley.

Divotdog · Feb 13, 2008

Now just some final adjustments to get a good up and down bounce with the table spinning and I will sit back, drink my TT stand and listen for any improvements, I will report back after I have played a couple of my favorite test records!

scootchu · Feb 14, 2008

Great documentary. I too have a 145 MKII and will be following this closely.
Thanks for the posts and pictures. I am a visual learner so it's a big plus.
I can't help but see that your aluminum clad plinth suffers from what mine did, chipped laquer. I used Acetone and a scotch brite to remove the old laquer. I will most likely build a new plinth or recoat the old one. I will stay tuned to see what you do!c

totem · Feb 14, 2008

I ran into an additional adjustment that others might need also on a TD 160 mkII,
while checking the motor spindle & belt positioning.
There was a slight ticking sound, which turned out to be the arm that changes the platter speed 33 or 45 was touching the belt. The belt was riding in the correct position on the drive spindle but the arm had over time caused the felt tab to become compressed and was now lower than it should be, just contacting the belt.
The fix was to add a little height the the original felt, raising the resting position of the arm.
Great repair run through Divitdog, my intention was not to derail your tutorial
but just add a possible fix that might affect others. :thmbsp:

Divotdog · Feb 14, 2008

scootchu said:
Great documentary. I too have a 145 MKII and will be following this closely.
Thanks for the posts and pictures. I am a visual learner so it's a big plus.
I can't help but see that your aluminum clad plinth suffers from what mine did, chipped laquer. I used Acetone and a scotch brite to remove the old laquer. I will most likely build a new plinth or recoat the old one. I will stay tuned to see what you do!c

Scott, I seen your Thorens in this thread, very nice! I have been considering this route ever since I seen yours, although I am still up in the air about it, the long term plan involves a shot filled plinth (ala Rolf Kelch) seen here.

Divotdog · Feb 14, 2008

totem said:
I ran into an additional adjustment that others might need also on a TD 160 mkII,
while checking the motor spindle & belt positioning.
There was a slight ticking sound, which turned out to be the arm that changes the platter speed 33 or 45 was touching the belt. The belt was riding in the correct position on the drive spindle but the arm had over time caused the felt tab to become compressed and was now lower than it should be, just contacting the belt.
The fix was to add a little height the the original felt, raising the resting position of the arm.
Great repair run through Divitdog, my intention was not to derail your tutorial
but just add a possible fix that might affect others. :thmbsp:

Totem, great advice on the felt, I believe that this is fairly common on these models, I hope anyone feels free to jump in here with anything I may miss or get wrong, I am no expert on Thorens by any means, I am just following advice I have picked up here and at the http://www.theanalogdept.com/

Divotdog · Feb 14, 2008

My initial impressions on this after about a dozen albums; The bass was affected more than anything, it seems to reach a little deeper and it is far more accurate, the soundstage seems to be a bit wider and deeper, the least affected seems to be the highs, I just haven’t noticed much difference here, we will give it some more time and see what happens. :music:

manderson · Feb 15, 2008

Great thread. I may have missed something, but it seems the only actual "modification" was inverting the outer platter. The rest was a good cleaning and tweaking of the setup. Am I correct?

I wish I had taken pictures inside the new TD-350 when I had it apart. In fact, there is much less to it. There are no springs. The arm board is just a piece of wood with three 3/4" wide metal bands (much like you would see on a large shipping palette) attached with contoured plastic blocks. The end of the each metal band has a short piece of wire with a nylon threaded "bolt" that screws up into the plinth and has a slot to make it adjustable from the top. There is no "up and down" bouncing of the platter because there are no springs. I definitely should have taken pictures.

I am very happy with the how the TD-350 is playing, and technically the engineering design may provide good sonic qualities. However, IMHO it appears to me that this older table has a much better design and build quality. Quite frankly, this TD-145 looks much like a Linn design from outside appearances. I've never seen a Linn taken apart so I can't compare the inside.

Divotdog · Feb 15, 2008

Manderson, you are correct, so far the only real mod done here has been to remove the foam from the springs, the platter was only inverted during the set up process, I wanted to have a well set up and tuned turn table before I went any farther with mods, I hope to add to this thread a little at a time as I mod, I will then post my impressions of each mod as I live with it for awhile. BTW, I was following the thread on your TD350, that is a beautiful table. :thmbsp:

I have already broken my cardinal rule of one at a time then live with it for a week or two though, I had ordered an AT440MLa for this table last week, and it came in yesterday, due to another thread that I was following I was concerned about a hum issue, so I immediately set the AT up, there does not seem to be an issue with this TT, but in all fairness this cart is going to need some break in time before we move on with further mods, it is a dirty job but I am just going to have to sit here and spin vinyl until it is broke in.

scootchu · Feb 15, 2008

Divotdog said:
Manderson, you are correct, so far the only real mod done here has been to remove the foam from the springs, the platter was only inverted during the set up process, I wanted to have a well set up and tuned turn table before I went any farther with mods, I hope to add to this thread a little at a time as I mod, I will then post my impressions of each mod as I live with it for awhile. BTW, I was following the thread on your TD350, that is a beautiful table. :thmbsp:

I have already broken my cardinal rule of one at a time then live with it for a week or two though, I had ordered an AT440MLa for this table last week, and it came in yesterday, due to another thread that I was following I was concerned about a hum issue, so I immediately set the AT up, there does not seem to be an issue with this TT, but in all fairness this cart is going to need some break in time before we move on with further mods, it is a dirty job but I am just going to have to sit here and spin vinyl until it is broke in.

What protractor did you use to set it up???

Divotdog · Feb 15, 2008

Scott, I used the Thorens Barwald Arc Protractor, available at the Vinyl Engine, I then double checked it against an old Baerwald that I have lying around, this cart is a pain in the a$$ to set up for us old guys, the stylus is tiny! and it seems to be pretty picky about set up. Initially it sounded rather harsh, but I played about 6 albums last night and then set it in a locked groove on a test record before I went to bed, it seems to be smoothing out quite a bit today.

Divotdog · Feb 15, 2008

After about 12 albums and 12 hours in a locked groove (20 hours +/-) I was listening to Al Stewart~Year of the Cat, part way into On the Border, second cut, first side, all of the sudden plenty of bass, the image locked right in the center, it now sounds far better than it did just a few minutes ago. :music:

Mr. Lin · Feb 16, 2008

Divotdog said:
but in all fairness this cart is going to need some break in time before we move on with further mods, it is a dirty job but I am just going to have to sit here and spin vinyl until it is broke in.

I know it's hard, but just hang in there.:thmbsp:

ehoove · Feb 16, 2008

Lower the noise floor

Divitdog,
If you have access to a stethescope, use it to listen to your table run and you will be amazed at the little noises you hear! If you can't get access to one, a screwdriver with tape on the blade end held against your ear will work but not as well. Polishing the bearing and cleaning the belt, pully, and inner platter belt surface will remove most of them, and it is not overly difficult. Also time the inner and outer platter combo with the belt off from 33 1/3 RPM to stop to determine the condition of the bearing. My TD125MkII stopped in 1 min 12 sec before I polished the bearing and spun for almost 4 min. after. The decrease in noise was tremendous. You have to lower the noise floor in a Thorens table to maximize it's potential. Most older Thorens tables have never had the bearing polished or the bearing oil cleaned out and replaced.
Good luck and enjoy your quest!
Jim

Thorens TD145 MkII Project

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