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pioneer pl 41 vs technics 1200

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Opinionated.
I recieved a pl 41 via e*** today.

It showed up in one piece so i was happy for about 5 minutes. Gradually i started to notice little things wrong here and there. Pitting on the platter, bent cantilever, cue device doesnt want to cooperate. Ok, your as old as i am so i wont make a scene, besides i will use my shure 97xe so i wont complain about the cantilever.

I took the headshell off the technics since they will work but even with a spacer weight i couldnt balance it. So i taped a nickel to it, that seems to work for now.

Then i wanted to set vta and found out the screws get brittle with age, luckily enough meat was left to turn it. Right about now i was getting ready to send it back, then i dropped the needle.

Now i imagine in your head you might be saying " then the magic happened right?" No not really, only the right channel was workng. I was pissed.

So i turned it over and popped the cover and saw that the tone arm wire for the left channel was broken off the solder joint. I can solder well but i didnt want to drag it to the lab in the cellar, not to mention my nerves at this point wouldnt let me do something as delicate asthis.

So i got my alligator hook up wires and jerry rigged it.

Now i dropped the needle for real this time. I expected it to sound bad by now, i mean i knew inside i wasted my money. I had a strange metallic taste in my mouth, and my wife would be home soon to chastise the crap outta me for buying junk.

My god.

It doesnt sound old to me. The frequency range is all there. The m97xe sounds rolled off on the tecnics but is gloriously light and silky on the pl41.

Bass guitar is way easy to pick out, actually placemsnt of everthing is nicely delineated. The sense of wholeness is staggering.

IMO...the 41 kills the 1200. i have read reviews of 1200's before that pointed out that the arm on the technics kills spacial cues and i really believe this now.

The 1200 hundred does some things really well, but i have discovered that i like a bit of euphonia and syrup. I just think the pio sounds more like music. I want a grado cart now.

Heres another thing. I measured the arm and it seems like a rega 250 would fit perfectly. I think a new arm would make this thing killer. Any thoughts about that would be great.
 
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not sure if that is the exact auction (didnt check) but pl 41 are nice looking tables. Had alot to do with my purchase.

There are a few people on here with 41's though and they really like em.

I'm gonna tweak the bejesus outta it.

I'll keep eveyone posted on my upcoming tweaks.
 
The wonderful sound you hear is from the Pioneer arm. I certainly won't argue the merits of the Rega arm, but IMO it is a waste to put it on a Pioneer. Put it on a Technics and then you have a worthwhile improvement.

You are probably missing an auxiliary weight in the back end of the arm or you may have the wrong counterweight. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to balance an M97xE. It should be easy to rig a weight to screw in to the back of the arm.
 
Keep tweaking the Pioneer with all the stock bits until you can't get any more out of it. It will put a smile on your face :)
 
I agree with Hakaplan, a Rega will be a worthwhile investment for the Technics, especially with a Michel technoweight.

You´ll need a different armboard, though. Check this out .

BTW, I love the the looks of the PL-41.:thmbsp:

Jorge
 
hakaplan said:
You are probably missing an auxiliary weight in the back end of the arm or you may have the wrong counterweight. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to balance an M97xE. It should be easy to rig a weight to screw in to the back of the arm.
Click to expand...

Didn't he say taped a nickel to the headshell? That would mean he already has too much weight on the counterweight end of the arm. No need to add more.:D
 
Blue Meanie said:
Didn't he say taped a nickel to the headshell? That would mean he already has too much weight on the counterweight end of the arm. No need to add more.:D
Click to expand...
Righto! Wasn't thinking clearly. In that case, the aux weight might already be there and have to be removed.
 
Or the headshell is just too light...my PL-41 is like that when using a light cartridge...no aux weight, just the mass of that tonearm!

In fact, I have used a 3gm spacer weight and a heavy headshell to good effect with some cartridges...
 
In that case get a Stanton shell with auxiliary screw-in weights and it will balance with a lite cartridge.
 
I took the technics headshell off and put it on the 41. I have an extra weight so i put it on and it still was to lite. I added a dime first round thru,You guessed it to lite, added nickel good to go.

Now i have a question,

I see thorens tables often with rega arm attached, so why would it be a waste on the 41?

My technics is old and kinda beat, mechanically sound but beat. I think its a good table but style wise i was never to keen on it. I love the way the 41 looks, its one of the reasons i figured i would give it a go. Cheap is up there to.

My rational so far is this, the 41 should be able to compete with empires and thorens's and even lower line regas etc.

The platter is heavy, the plinth is heavy, the motor is robust, its a simple manual table.

These are the tweaks i was thinking of.

dynomat the plinth.

dyno the platter.

rega 250....now remember its not really a waste because its removable, and i could use it on something else.

add some spikes and maybe add a heavier base panel like they do to thorens tables as a mod.

What do you think? Nothing i wrote should be taken as argumentative at all. I have been thinking about this for awhile and need input.

If anything is missing from my chain of thinking let me know:banana:

Les
 
What hakaplan argued, and I agreed with, was that Pioneer´s original arm is really a class act that most probably wouldn´t be bettered by the Rega.

Such is not the case with Technics SL-1200´s arm, which is undoubtdely inferior.

Jorge
 
ok i got ya.

Actually after listening to the 41 alot tonight i have kinda thought there is a nice synergy with the stock arm.

There are some threads by other 41 owners that used a lighter counter weight and headshell to good effect. I might try that as well.

How hard is it to rewire a tonearm??
 
I would think that mounting another arm to the PL-41 would be a bit of a chore...

To figure out if the geometry would be correct with the Rega arm and it's mounting requirements, you would have to measure from the spindle center to the center of the tonearm mounting hole...is that the correct distance as specified for the Rega arm, or not?

It's not the length of the tonearm that matters at all, it is the arm's mounting distance from the spindle that matters. If it is off you will never be able to really get the cartridge dialed in properly.

As far as the other mods?

Well, the PL41 Platter has the raised ridge in the center that prevents it from using normal mats, like my usual favorite Herbie's "Way Excellent Turntable Mat II", so I use a homemade version of the "None Felt" mat on mine,. I don't know if I would mess with the balance of the platter by applying DynaMat to it...the deck and plinth maybe.

My cuing lever would let the arm drop immediately no matter how I adjusted the tension...a little silicone grease on the plunger gave it a nice viscous action.

The base of my arm uses a plug on cable with 5 pins...great, you can just take another tonearm cable with that s-din connection and use that...ummm, sorry, no way! The pin spacing is wrong and the pins are too thick in diameter anyway...gotta find a female jack that will fit that tonearm and make up a cable for it one of these days....the stock cable unfortunately uses a molded on connector or I'd disassemble it and make a better cable using a lot better components.

The original headshell was a lot heavier than most of the other headshells I have, but if you use the original Pioneer cartridge, or a Shure M-3, with it, it will balance just fine...the original headshell gives you a little bit of adjustment, too as the cartridge mounts to a plate that then attaches to the shell with a single thumbscrew that when loosened allows the cartridge to move a bit forward or back....

I haven't tried to rewire the Pioneer arm, I have done DOZENS of Rega arms with the Incognito kits, but if I were to do the Pioneer's I would replace the connector in the bottom of the arm with one that is compatible with today's 5-pin socket...Cardas makes one that I know of....the hardest part of rewiring this arm would be the connector for the headshell...

Oh yeah, if you haven't gotten around to it yet, you can pick up a user's manual from the Vinyl Engine: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/pioneer/pl-41.shtml


Have fun and good luck!
 
As you're finding out, the PL-41 is a very, very nice turntable. I have two! If you haven't really cleaned it up yet, the wood base is stunning.

Important: The PL-41 does NOT use a "standard" headshell. It is heavier than the usual headshell, and if you replace it, like with the headshell from the 1200, the arm won't balance properly. Your best options are eBay, or else a headshell with adjustable weights.

Adding a coin is, uuummmhhhh, iffy at best.:no:
 
It looks like a rega 250 will pretty much drop in. As i wrote earlier i took some measurements, and was surprised too see it fall in line with the rega. There might be soemthing i am overlooking however.

I might stay with the stock arm anyway. Even without anti skate it functions well.

As for the nickel on my headshell...its only temporary. Just a quick fix to try it.
 
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It looks like a rega 250 will pretty much drop in. As i wrote earlier i took some measurements, and was surprised too see it fall in line with the rega. There might be soemthing i am overlooking however.

I might stay with the stock arm anyway. Even without anti skate it functions well.

As for the nickel on my headshell...its only temporary. Just a quick fix to try it.
Click to expand...

Any follow-up on this? I would like to replace the arm on my 41A at some point, but not if it requires any surgery.

I know the AT-12(?) and Connoiseur arms are drop-ins.
 
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