Cartridge noise

I recently got another TT - a Dual 504 with an empire cartridge. It took me a while to set this one up properly, but it sounds pretty nice now. What still irks me is the sound that seems to be coming straight from the cartridge, not going through the speakers. It sounds a little like a broken tweeter, and after noticing it on the Dual, I checked my other TTs, and they have it as well, only much quieter than on the Dual. I guess it also doesn't help that I tend to sit very close to the Dual when I am using it, and I usually don't have the volume turned up very high. Is this noise normal, and is there anything that can be done to reduce it?

Many thanks

Frank

Hi Frank,

I think the term is called "stylus talk" where you're actually hearing vibrations coming from the cantilever.

I remember hearing this off old records players I had in the 60's with ceramic cartridges.:drool: I have also heard it when using a generic 78 rpm stylus (more so than when using the OEM stylus) I think this noise is more likely when using lower compliance styli.

Are you running a OEM stylus on your Empire cartridge? Anyway you might try using a different stylus, or a different cartridge.

I also noticed in your picture that there is no dustcover. A lowered dustcover would also help cut the noise.

Nice looking Dual! Thats just the sound of the stylus vibrating to the information cut into the record grooves and is normal.

Nice 'table! And, don't worry about it, it's not unusual.

P.s. My brother lives in Kent. Beautiful town.

Dave

ke4jhj said:

I think the term is called "stylus talk" where you're actually hearing vibrations coming from the cantilever.

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That would be a very fitting term for what I am hearing!

ke4jhj said:

Are you running a OEM stylus on your Empire cartridge? Anyway you might try using a different stylus, or a different cartridge.

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The cartridge is an Empire 1000 AE/III, which came with the TT. I understand it's a very well respected cartridge, and it sounds very nice - except for the stylus talk issue. It came without a stylus, and I ordered this one on recommendation of several fellow AK members.

ke4jhj said:

I also noticed in your picture that there is no dustcover. A lowered dustcover would also help cut the noise.

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That is a very clever idea! The reason you see no dustcover is that I don't have the hinges for the dustcover, although I do have the original cover. What I usually do is lift the cover off the TT for a night of listening and only put it back on once I am done and ready for bed. It's not too much work to put the cover on if that would cut down the noise, and I have a hard time seeing how it wouldn't. Kind of a cheap solution too, which I am always a great fan of, seeing that I am notoriously cheap :thmbsp:

dread31 said:

Nice 'table! And, don't worry about it, it's not unusual. P.S. My brother lives in Kent. Beautiful town.
Dave

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Thanks for the compliments - especially about Kent, which is not a bad place to live. It's close to both Cleveland and Akron, with a comparatively relaxed lifestyle, safe, no traffic problems, and a pretty good college (KSU). However, you are the first one I hear calling Kent 'beautiful'. It has potential for being pretty, but most of it is unrealized

Frank

ke4jhj said:

I think the term is called "stylus talk" where you're actually hearing vibrations coming from the cantilever.

Click to expand...

You mean you guys can actually hear that...

I also noticed in your picture that there is no dustcover. A lowered dustcover would also help cut the noise.

Click to expand...

I don't know if that's such a good idea. Then the cover picks-up the sound amplified by the speakers and feeds it back to the TT. This actually sounds worse (I can hear THAT...)

It is a nice Dual, though...

Frank,

I just wanted to comment that you do have a nice looking Dual!:thmbsp:

In response to the dustcover, I have heard that having the dustcover lowered will couple sound from the speakers back to the turntable. Others swear that having the dustcover lowered prevents feedback. I haven't noticed any improvement one way or the other. I feel that with the dustcover lowered, it prevents a dust particle or two from landing on the record while playing.

As they say, your mileage will vary.:yes:

As I recall, back when TTs were the main source, the prevailing thought was that having the dust cover lowered would actually affect the tracking force because of the pull of static electricity.

I tried the dust cover thing last night, and with the Dual having the cover down during playback is a definite improvement! Anybody who doesn't believe it, feel free to come by and check it out


Dual 504 with cover down.

Again, many thanks Dave for the useful tip! Cute puppy in your avatar, by the way. This is my border collie:


Jody at the beach.

As it happens, I have my main TT set up on a shelf where there is no space to flip open the dust cover. What I do is lift it off entirely and place it on a space I have reserved for this purpose on a higher shelf. When the Dual was in that space, I never bothered to install the Dust cover properly for that reason, and in fact I thought the hinges were missing. With the Dual now being set up as part of my basement system, and considering Dave's suggestion to combat the stylus talk, I had another look at the dust cover and it can simply be hooked into the back of the TT and then be flipped up and down. One can even adjust the springs that hold the cover up, thereby controlling the force that's necessary to open and close the cover. This little Dual is fancier than I thought!

Having the cover down during playback makes the stylus talk virtually inaudible, which is usually quite loud with this TT/cartridge/stylus combination. I can hear no feedback, so for me that's a non issue - at least for this setup.

With my main TT (Mitsubishi LT-20, AT Signet cartridge) putting on the cover during playback is simply too much of a hassle - and stylus talk is virtually inaudible with this setup anyhow. So I guess with the Dual from now on I will have the cover down during playback, with the Mitsubishi it will remain open.

Many thanks for all your suggestions!

Frank


My main rig - Mitsubishi LT-20 direct drive, linear track TT with Audio Technica Signet cartridge. Unlike the Dual 504, with this setup stylus talk is a non-issue.


And just because I like photos, here is one of the AT Signet cartridge on the Mitsu tone arm.

fmueller said:

I recently got another TT - a Dual 504 with an empire cartridge. It took me a while to set this one up properly, but it sounds pretty nice now. What still irks me is the sound that seems to be coming straight from the cartridge, not going through the speakers. It sounds a little like a broken tweeter, and after noticing it on the Dual, I checked my other TTs, and they have it as well, only much quieter than on the Dual. I guess it also doesn't help that I tend to sit very close to the Dual when I am using it, and I usually don't have the volume turned up very high. Is this noise normal, and is there anything that can be done to reduce it?

Many thanks

Frank

Click to expand...

the sound you hear is perfectly normal. some cartridges are "quieter" than others in this respect, but it is still audible, especially when standing or sitting right next to the turntable.