Ethical question: Destroy a healthy TT to make a DIY RCM? (w/pics!)

So, I’m getting ready to build a record cleaning machine. I’ve got the major components: $5 shop vac, $3 bread machine, free electric ice cream mixer (good to have options) and a $5 turntable.

The turntable, a Kenwood KD-2070 direct drive, has been in my barn for a couple months. I picked it up at the flea market just for this project. (The way it looked at the time, I thought I might have thrown $5 away.) Before I tore into it, I thought I’d hook it up and see if it actually worked, and by-gawry, it’s alright. (with my AT 440mla attached) It cleaned up pretty well, but has suffered a bit while it was in storage before I bought it. Still, I’m having second thoughts about destroying it to make an RCM.

I do have another ‘table in storage, a Sanyo TP 1010, a low-end belt-drive number. This rig doesn’t sound pretty (it’s noisy), but it’s in excellent cosmetic condition and has a rather new belt.

So here’s my dilemma:
First, is it morally wrong to destroy a healthy turntable to build an RCM?
If it is ok to destroy one, should it be the worse-for-wear-but-still-pretty-good-sounding Kenwood, or the rather clean, but not-real-good-in-the-first-place-Sanyo?
Or should I sell these two and keep looking for a junker to make my RCM out of?

I anxiously await the collective wisdom.:thmbsp:

I'd kill the Sanyo. Something that's pretty, but sonically crappy isn't worth keeping in my opinion. You might be able to find a use for the Kenwood at some point, where the Sanyo is just going to keep sounding bad.

I'd kill the Sanyo too. Either way, as long as you make good use out of the table, why not?

FWIW, kill neither.

I made my RCM out of a chunk of 3/4 Melamine that I cut out of larger stock. I screwed the trimmed down part of the ice cream maker directly to it and added a ball bearing Lazy Susan unit I had for perimeter support.

How would you attach the drive unit from the ice cream maker to the platter anyhow??

zenith2134 said:

I'd kill the Sanyo too. Either way, as long as you make good use out of the table, why not?

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"

The Sanyo is a DIY RCM in a TT's body, looking for an understanding liberal audiophile to help it over it's stereophobia.

DD isn't going to have enough torque IMO. Get an old BSR idler drive and use it instead.

tensleep said:

"

The Sanyo is a DIY RCM in a TT's body, looking for an understanding liberal audiophile to help it over it's stereophobia.

Click to expand...

:thmbsp:

That Kenny looks mighty fine from my viewpoint. Kill the Sanyo if you must sacrifice one.

Andyman said:

FWIW, kill neither.
How would you attach the drive unit from the ice cream maker to the platter anyhow??

Click to expand...

Don't yet know exactly. I'm still kicking it around in my head.
BTW, Melamine is like Formica, isn't it? Do you mean the chip-board stuff with the hard white laminate on it that often gets used for shelving?

If anything, kill the Sanyo. However you may be able to find a dead TT on Craigslist (post as item wanted or whatever) or on freecycle. I had 3 kind offers on TT's on CL alone.

Presumably you're going to drive the platter thru some means other than the TT's original mechanism seeings how you've got the options of bread maker and ice cream maker on hand. Looks pretty certain that I'm going to be using a bread maker with rubber idler wheel attached for mine...

Michael

To answer your morality question directly, they are both yours, honestly acquired, and what happens to them is up to you and no one else.

The only moral case I can muster would be if these were highly collectible or sought-after tables and you were destroying them in an effort to increase rarity or keep them out other collector's hands. And, even in that case, it might only qualify as mean and callous, not necessarily immoral.

I vote for "sounds good, looks bad," over, "looks good, sounds bad," any day. Sound is what it is all about.

Anyone who sees it and can't tell it sounds good because of its looks is an idiot!

Use the Sanyo for the RCM.

I would make the decision based on which is easiest to connect either the bread maker or ice cream motor to.

In another RCM DIY thread the OP had cut the drive plate on the motor of his BM and hot melted it to the bottom of his platter with positive results. That thread even shows pics of his progression. Search and ye will find.

You should have heard the squawking when I posted pics of my RCM which uses a Technics SP-25 for its platter! (It's working great, BTW).

Doug

Brett a said:

BTW, Melamine is like Formica, isn't it? Do you mean the chip-board stuff with the hard white laminate on it that often gets used for shelving?

Click to expand...

Yep.
Just drill some holes and screw on your adapter to the motor; couldn't be simpler.

You don't actually have to use a TT at all: an RCM provides a support that turns, to but the record on and clamp it to, when cleaning. It has NONE of the audio-related requirements of a TTL no need to isolate motor noise, maintain exact speed consistency, etc... so ANY clean, round surface that attaches to the motor will do. ANY old platter, OR a disc of plastic, plywood (marine grade to be water-resistant), etc... will do, bolted to the motor, in ANY kind of box that looks nice enough for your tastes.

So DON'T destroy a NICE TT to make one. Maybe that Sanyo can be sacrificed... but you could have an RCM that would look MUCH NICER, if you simply made it from other materials. Look for a nice wooden box that you can veneer/cover/paint, or a suitable piece of furniture, etc... and install the motor and platter in it, drill a hole and hook up the vacuum head. Voila! RCM.

But I can see the appeal of converting an existing TT. If you do that, use a "junker". As said, maybe that Sanyo... but I'd still think about going from scratch and making it look even better!

How about metal trimmings to make a "steampunk" one, or one with a platter 4" thick? PLENTY of possibilities, that wouldn't be that hard or time-consuming to execute.

Update

Thanks for your thoughts everybody.
I decided to dig into the Sanyo. So far, I haven't done anything I can't put back together.

I found it has a nice, useful spindle bearing which I have mounted in an old piece of shelving stock I had kicking around (see photo). This is just for the time being, so I have some base to work with other than the original TT (see other photo).

I also made a vacuum attachment. So now I am able to vacuum my LPs which has made quite a sonic difference (I used to blot them dry with a soft bath towel)

When i get into actually assembling these things into an RCM, I'd like to start another thread on the project. But for now, it looks likely that the Sanyo will be an organ donor and the Kenwood will wait in the wings as an understudy for my Pioneer PL-550.

Thanks again

:thmbsp:

I was having exactly the same ethical issues myself. I do want to build an RCM but two TTs is evaluated for that appeard too salvageable for the purpose.

Mounting a platter on a plinth for hand turning isn't bad but you don't really need the platter. I would cut a piece of plywood in a circle and mount that.

Anyway, I found the ideal candidate for the purpose. An abused Revox B790 that I found with the tonearm missing. This is the ideal machine for one reason. The direct driver motor offers immense torgue. 0.5 sec start up time and less than that breaking time, and these offer a very significant immunity to additional load.

I have found that belt drive TTs are so weak that even brusing the LP with a carbon fibre brush slows it down and wiping with a discwasher brush stops them. The 790 doesn't even show a reduction in speed no matter how much the brush load is.

Of course, it is an overkill to have a quartz lock motor controlled RCM and the amount of torgue required can be produced using a simple 12V DC motor running at 8000rpm with a 1:500 reduction gearbox. Only problem, I can get the motor and compatible reduction block from RS for ~160 euro but the canibalized B790 for about half that much.

That is looking great! I think you made the right choice in turning the Sanyo from a so-so turntable into a great little RCM.

Congrats!:yes::thmbsp: