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PIONEER or SANSUI

Sultan swing

Active Member
hi! i found these tts but i can't decide which one to buy.

PIONEER PL-155A with a STANTON 60EE - 140$
PIONEER PL-720 with a original pioneer cartridge - 110$
SANSUI FR-D25 with a AUDIO-TEHNICA CN5625AL - 110$

all are in great shape visually.
please do have in mind that the turntable-offer in croatia/europe isn't big so the prices are a bit higher than in usa or canada.

i hope someone uses/has one of these tts and will point the good/bad sides of one. thank you
 
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Well according to my info, the PL-155A is from 1970 which means it probably does not have cueing or anti-skate. I've never actually seen one, but I know that even later Pioneers lacked these features, so it's a good guess that this one does, also. It's sounds like an interesting collector's item, but probably not practical for everyday use.

The PL-720 is the same as the PL-7 which is a quartz, dd, full auto from 1981 with low mass arm. I don't know the condition of the stylus, but the original cart was a PC-3MC, a moving coil cartridge, so that should prove interesting.

The Sansui is full auto belt drive with pitch control, also from 1981. The cart is entry level.

Unless you know for sure, you have to assume that you will need a new stylus or cart, so don't go by that.

The PL-720 is the winner here. Member beej has one and can confirm that it is quite decent.
 
thank you. i just found out that that pioneer you reccomended is about 400km far from my town so it's gonna be difficult to decide what to do with it. but i'll let you know what i decided. thank you, again, for so many advice you've given. and again, pardon me on my english if sth is incorrectly written.
 
And I will third that motion.

PL-720.

Then I would most likely seek out a new cart.
Not being a big fan of MCs.
Maybe one of those new Ortophons?
But, that's just me.

Dave
 
Get the 720 if you can. Happy to assist with set up and any issues if they arise. I think the PL720/PL7 is an excellent table. By the way, the PC3MC cart is quite respectable. There's an upgrade available through LP Gear as well.
 
so everyone reccomends the 720. i have 2 more questions:
1. i will use a sanyo integrated stereo amplifier DCA 30, and in it's manual it is stated that i can use a tt with a magnetic cartridge in the phono input. will i have to use a pre-amp for the mc cart?i've somewhere read that it sends a slightly waeker signal...
2. is it possible to use a mm cart on a table that uses a mc cart originally? do i have to make some changes?

thank you.
 
No changes necessary to the turntable.

You would need either a step-up transformer, or a preamp that specifically has an MC section in it. The stylus quality is unknown, so if you end up needing to replace it, that's $60 plus the cost of a SUT or preamp. It might just be more prudent to purchase a magnetic cart. Up to you.
 
after a while i'm considering sansui again. the pl-155a was out of the game a long time ago due to a lack of antiskating control. the pl-720 is far away from my town so i can't evaluate if it is in acceptable condition so i'm back at sansui FR-D25. seem to be in great condition. seller is giving me a spare belt. the price is now 76$ including that AT CN5625AL cart.i know howard wrote it an entry level but is it so much worse than the grado black?

Semiautomatic, S-arm, Stroboscope and pitch control, Belt-drive, PLL-Servo motor
Weight: cca.5kg

suggestions? opinions? critics?
 
The FR-D25 was the very bottom of the line in 1981/82. The line, with prices in Australian dollars, were FR-D25 (BD) $179, FR-D35 (DD) $249, FR-D40 (DD) $359, FR-D55 (DD) $499, XR-Q11 (QL DD) $849. BD=belt drive, DD=direct drive, QL=quartz lock. The FR-D25 had a stated wow and flutter of 0.03% WRMS (rather hopeful, I think - I'll bet it's more like 0.06%!), the DD turntables had 0.025% wow and flutter, and the XR-Q11, which was a superb turntable, like all the Sansui XR/XP line, had wow and flutter of 0.015%, and was a competitor for the top-of-the-line Denon, JVC, Linn, Technics (SP-10), Rega, Sota and Ariston turntables.

So the FR-D25 really isn't very good, like most cheap belt drives from the 1980's - the best sounding and performing models were all direct drives at that time, apart from a few better belt drives such as Linn, Ariston, Sota and Rega's P3. Think Technics' current cheapest belt drive, and you'll be in the same league for performance. Whether or not it has anti-skating, I don't know, but its Sansui predecessor, the bottom of the line SR-B200, didn't have it, according to a late 70's test, so there's a fair chance it doesn't. If it doesn't then it's not as good as the current cheapest Technics belt drive, which does. Best to wait for a while for a better model to come up for sale.

-Don
 
thank you, don. i'm pretty sure it has antiskating, but maybe i'm wrong, i'll upload a picture of the back of the tonearm so if anyone could tell me is the little counterweight on the side is and antiskating control.
 

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thank you, don. i'm pretty sure it has antiskating, but maybe i'm wrong, i'll upload a picture of the back of the tonearm so if anyone could tell me is the little counterweight on the side is and antiskating control.

Yes, it's a lever and bar anti-skating, which is usually only used on lower end tonearms, as it adds a slight amount of friction as the bars move across each other. The better way of doing that is what my Luxman does - it uses a bar with an adjustable weight (to adjust anti-skating force) on a bearing for low friction, suspended by a thin flexible wire - sort of like the weight on a string or wire anti-skating, without the hassle of making sure the string is running in its track on the bearing.

-Don
 
thank you for info. so this is not a very good system of antiskating. could you explain it to me in plain english because i'm from croatia,europe so some of the terms i didn't get. why is this system used only on low-end tonearms, does it have complications with adjusting it or using it?
 
I respectfully disagree with Don on this. He may not be aware of the limited used tt market in Croatia.

First of all, that type of anti-skate was not just used on cheap turntables. It appears on every table in the series up to the FR-D55, and I've seen it used on other top models during that time period. The Kenwood KD-5100 comes to mind. Second, this turntable was easily as good or better than any belt drive Technics, many of which are very popular. With PLL servo speed control, the wow and flutter could easily be .03. Technics belts were .045. I've seen pics of this tt and and it looks decent to me. Yes, quartz direct drive was preferable, but the performance won't be that much less.

It's low position in the lineup was partly because it was semi-auto instead of auto, and partly being belt drive. But it shares the same tonearm and therefore will have the same basic sound as the higher models. While it may not be in the caliber of the tt's Don suggested, any of those would set you back probably $300 or more in Croatia if you could even find them.

The AT cartridge is not bad at all. It's a conical stylus, so it won't extract quite the amount of detail as the Grado, but it will serve you fine for the time being.

I think you should go for it.
 
I did some research on that other Pioneer, the PL-155A. I would go with that model.

Based on these pictures:

http://www.njuskalo.hr/index.php/ukaz/image/izd/165992/slika/0#slike

it would seem to have cueing. I think the combination of older/better build quality tips the scale ever so slightly over the Sansui. However, the Sansui would serve very well also.
Doesn't have anti-skate. Older build quality is a consideration, but also considering the age, the specs of the newer tt will be much better.
 
hi guys! the link sansuilouie posted is a croatian site for buying/selling stuff. i was considering that pl-155a a while ago but it is true what howard said, it does not have antiskating. as a matter of fact, he told me so when i posted a thread about this particular tt.
seller is out of town for a while so when he gets back i'll go and see/hear the sansui, but from what i found out on it,i believe this would be a nice step up for me. hope sth won't go wrong with this. thanks howard and sansuilouie. and also, i did a little research myself and pretty expensive and decend tts use this kind of antiskating.
 
I respectfully disagree with Don on this. He may not be aware of the limited used tt market in Croatia.

First of all, that type of anti-skate was not just used on cheap turntables. It appears on every table in the series up to the FR-D55, and I've seen it used on other top models during that time period. The Kenwood KD-5100 comes to mind. Second, this turntable was easily as good or better than any belt drive Technics, many of which are very popular. With PLL servo speed control, the wow and flutter could easily be .03. Technics belts were .045. I've seen pics of this tt and and it looks decent to me. Yes, quartz direct drive was preferable, but the performance won't be that much less.

It's low position in the lineup was partly because it was semi-auto instead of auto, and partly being belt drive. But it shares the same tonearm and therefore will have the same basic sound as the higher models. While it may not be in the caliber of the tt's Don suggested, any of those would set you back probably $300 or more in Croatia if you could even find them.
QUOTE]

Yes, I'm aware that there may be a limited market there - that's why I suggested he wait for something better to come along, however long that takes. He could buy the Sansui, and it certainly will treat his records OK, while he waits for a better model to come up at a good price. It's a bonus that it comes with a spare belt.

Independent tests of the time put the cheapest belt drive Technics turntables clearly ahead of similar Sansui models, with more accurate quoted specs - those Technics models were actually very good for the price, as were the cheapest Hitachi models, for that matter. That's why I queried the Sansui spec - I doubt it would get anywhere near 0.03% - that's Linn territory, and Linns were much better than the Sansui, and were one of the very few turntables to match their stated w/f specs in tests.

I was aware that many Kenwood models used that anti-skating, but it's still not very good, in my opinion. It depends on how well the bars are finished, of course (I've seen some that were shockers for finish!), but the ones that I've seen clearly had slight, discernible tonearm horizontal friction caused as the bars slid against each other. The higher end Sansui models didn't use it, and neither did many of the earlier models. The fact that models such as the earlier SR-636 to 929 models all used the better system of bar and weight, with the bar suspended by a thin wire like Luxman, indicate that Sansui knew that the sliding bar system was inferior, so didn't use it on their better models, apart from the higher turntables in the FR series.

-Don
 
Independent tests of the time put the cheapest belt drive Technics turntables clearly ahead of similar Sansui models, with more accurate quoted specs - those Technics models were actually very good for the price, as were the cheapest Hitachi models, for that matter. That's why I queried the Sansui spec - I doubt it would get anywhere near 0.03% - that's Linn territory, and Linns were much better than the Sansui, and were one of the very few turntables to match their stated w/f specs in tests.

-Don
Gotcha.
 
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