Pioneer FB cones

I have been hunting for awhile now looking for an extra clean set of CS-99A's as I hear they have great sound and would match some of my other gear. The question I have is sometimes I see the woofers with the FB stamp and sometimes I don't...but they still have the same coloring and besides missing the FB stamp seem exactly alike. Did they not stamp "FB" on all the originals; maybe the early ones or does the absence of the "FB" mark mean they are replacement speakers?

I have seen some on Ebay without the FB embossed, don't know what that means.

I have 88As, 99As, and 901s. In my experience with an SX-1050, the best sounding are the 88As, then 99As, then the CS 901s (which are not FB type). The only thing the 88A's lack are great bottom end, in my opinion. The 99As came to be in order to rectify that I would think, but in the process of fitting a 15 inch woofer (cast aluminum frame, not steel like the 88A), there was a volume/weight/price decision made and the mid and high end detail got less attention in the trade-offs. If Pioneer would have retained all the delicate details the 88A's can muster, and included a 15 inch woofer to boot, the cabinet would have been much bigger. I stack these two models and it sounds real nice that way. The 88As were found at a Goodwill for 10 each, sitting there for a month, and the 99As were found on Craigs list, 25 for the pair. The 901s look spectacular, came from Craig's List also but sound rather dull. I see you have 903s.

I have some CS 77A's and they have all FB drivers, except the super tweeter, of course. I'm pretty sure the FB refers to the material that the cone is made of. Some kind of wool blend or something, if I remember right.

no ****, FB means 'Free Beaten'-- that is, the banana leaf fiber (again, no ****) is pulped and formed into the speaker cone material through a process that Pioneer chose to call...uh....free beaten.

i am not making this up. i once owned a pair of CS-99a's and researched on them-- BTW, in my experience, the CS-99a is very sensitive to placement and in spite of the 15" cone on the...uh...free beaten woofs, bass is present but kinda flabby and one note boomy...not a lot of articulation.

Many years ago I found a pair of CS-99A's with the original drivers in the cabs untouched.
Strange thing is the Mids have the FB stamp but not the woofers. The speaker service I bought them from had many complete sets of raw drivers sitting on the shelf. They wanted me to buy out their entire stock. I thought of buying the FB stamped woofers and replacing them in my cabs, but all had pushed in dust caps.
But from all the comparison I did all the speakers regardless of being labeled FB or not were in fact FB drivers. Not sure why PIONEER labeled some and not others?:scratch2:

Found this earlier this summer as part of an EBay add-

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Comparison of the PIONEER CS-99 and CS-99A

The question has been raised here more then once before. What are the differences between the PIONEER CS-99 and CS-99A?

Well below is a visual cosmetic and sound review of them both.

The regular or earlier standard CS series of the CS-77,CS-88,CS-99 speakers have matte black speaker baffles.CS had small almost hidden screws to attach the grills and 'A' series had velcro at each corner of the grill so it could easly removed to showoff the 'Free Beating' drivers and veneered baffle.

Drivers in the older standard series also have a matte black color.Drivers are different and are usually arranged in different configuration and placement.I believe Alnico drivers on the standard series PIONEER's own on the 'A'.

Standard CS had regular dark black foam and rubber like surrounds.The 'A' series had non rotting cloth surrounds.Earlier CS series had lower wattage ratings whereas the 'A' upgraded newer series could handle more power.

In the case of a standard CS-99 at 80 watts capability and the CS-99A at 100 watts capability.

CS-88 standard at 60 watts and CS-88A at 80 watts.Unfortunately I do not have specs on the CS-77's.

Drivers are rear installed on the baffle in the case of the regular CS and front loaded on the 'A' series.

In a nutshell PIONEER upgraded the CS speaker line with a nicer veneered front baffle and came up with new 'Free Beating' drivers to improve sound wattage capability and looks and just added an 'A' at the end of the model.The crossovers may be different and improved also?

"F.B."('Free Beating')PROCESS CONE PAPER.

The brown cone paper is different from conventional cone papers.It is composed of long and short,thick and thin fibers,that are beaten,not cut.The pulp itself is made from specially selected plant and animal fibers,(so those woofers really DO BARK! LOL)then processed through PIONEER's Free Beating System.The result of this new technology is a cone paper that is lighter,stronger than any other.It provides a rich,powerful bass tone,clear mids,improved damping,lower distortion and the ability to handle high input signals.

(taken from PIONEER CS-99A Brochure)
Wonder what ever happened to this 'F.B.' 'New Technology' it went away with this series?

The SOUND difference?

Sound really good.Good for ROCK,POP,maybe Country but not my forte.Not for everyone but a good set of speakers.Full well balanced sound even with the super tweeters.Not overwhelming highs just right.Great mids.And of course more than adequate bass response.Although I prefer the sound of my MACH I's or my CS-99A's these are still some rockin' speakers.
Well there is defintely a sound difference between the two.Although they both sound very good the 'A' series really shines thru.The sound is fuller probably due to the bigger mid drivers and of course the 'F.B.' cones.With the wattage capability higher on the 'A' you can really get them pounding.
But I have to tell you if I did not have a pair of 'A' series to compare to I would still love the older standard set.They are closely matched in sound quality but the 'A' series edges up to the finish line to take the GOLD medal a little better and the regular CS gets the SILVER medal.You cannot go wrong with either series if the price is nice!

Besides these I have only heard a pair of CS-88A's and they sound great! I cannot vouch for the regular CS-77,CS-77A,or the CS-88 because I have never had a chance to hear them.

END

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This isn't why I own 3 sets of CS speakers. The reason is that they are all over Northern VA right now, at Thrift Stores and on Craig's List. My wife, a big thrift store expert, found all three sets. I personally have been considering getting a pair of HPM 100s, but guess what----I'll keep riding my 1998 specialized stumpjumper (wife has one too), forgo the Harley Davidson, and keep listening to my CS speakers.

ericson38 said:

The 901s look spectacular, came from Craig's List also but sound rather dull.

Click to expand...

Are you sure you don't have some bad caps or dead drivers in your 901's?
I have a pair of 901A's and they have become one of my all time favorite speakers. They do seem to fall a bit short on certain types of music but for the jazz and folk music I listen to they are outstanding! With these types of music playing on the 901's I actually feel like I'm listening to the real thing rather than a recording playing through speakers.

They are working correctly, don't know if the caps need to be woke back up by performing some extended play time (I have seen that occur on my wife's CS-06a speakers). These CS901's were in a hot garage, in a very neglected corner of it, but came out in remarkable cosmetic shape. I just bought a couple of oak bar stools to get them off the ground (the CS 88a's were on top of them), and will attempt to see what you mean. Thanks.

Cs-901

Update on the CS-901s.

Chasb11,

I raised the 901s up, and ran them for a few hours last night at low level. Today, under closer inspection, I realized that the large horn on the right speaker wasn't working. I excercised the medium frequency switch on the rear control panel and after a while, it came in. Now they sound almost as detailed as the CS-88As, and have more bottom end (which they always had).

I would say that your experience was the right one, mine was based on a smiggen of 'dirt'.

Its important for people who want to know the relative merits of these things to have the most complete picture.

Free Beating refers to the material but more to the type of suspension of the speaker in the frame; the cone can actually flex... not just move in and out from the signal.

ALL 99a Had the FB stamped in 14kt gold plate. If the FB isn't there... the cones have been replaced or refoamed or both. I've seen both types (FB and sans FB) but I never saw 99a's in the PX or audio shop on base that didn't have the FB stamp.

Also, you can't just pop a cone out or restore the bubble or diaphram after it is dented. And a dented cone will not produce a correct hearing experience.

I have a set of original 99As including the original owner's manual without the FB stamped. Never touched or reformed and sound great. It appears some were stamped and later versions were not. I actually replaced the unstamped ones over the years with stamped ones just to have the FB stamped. Sounds and look the same-one stamped one not.

I also have 200watts HPM100s and a set of CS-A9000s (150 watts). The 99As combined with the HPMs make excellent sounds. Lower base of 99As is made up with the HPMs and you cannot beat the nice mids, tweeters and horn of the 99As.

Also, I have experimented with pushing the 99As with four different Pioneer amps and the larger amps really bring out the base in the 99As.

My take.

Hunt55

I would ditto the experience on the CS99A with a larger amp, I was originally driving a pair with a Marantz 2275 and the base response was almost undetectable, unless the bass tone controls were advanced. Put on a Sansui 9090DB and suddenly the base was very much alive, but the highs and mids were much colder.

I had 2 sets on a sx-1050 for awhile, they sounded pretty good
the only problem was no midrange adjustment. Then I bought a
EQ and they came alive. Next test was my SA-1000 amp lots of
power with EQ sounded great. I now have a SA-8800 hooked
up and the same thing. The more power the better and a EQ
helps alot. I know alot of peoples opinion is not enough bass
which I do agree but with some extra power and a EQ they sound
good, and it does'nt hurt when your wife really likes them to.

For a while, until my cat pissed into it [he hated solid-state audio], I drove my CS-99A with a Sansui 130 wpc receiver. While the speakers had the tendency to walk across the room with the volume cranked, bass was not any better than with my Fisher 40 wpc tube amp. The cat had good taste. I also prefer tubes.

Nortonrider said:

I would ditto the experience on the CS99A with a larger amp, I was originally driving a pair with a Marantz 2275 and the base response was almost undetectable, unless the bass tone controls were advanced. Put on a Sansui 9090DB and suddenly the base was very much alive, but the highs and mids were much colder.

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I routinely switch between Pioneers A-90 (200 watts), A-80 (150) watts and SA-9800 (100 Watts) connected to a Pioneer A-21 pre-amp. I do not have to even advanced the bass. But, the SA-9800 witih additional sound controls actually gives it way to much bass.

I see you are in Maryland. I am in Mont. Co. There is a great Pioneer service center in Baltimore that does not mind working on vintage Pioneer. They have restored or serviced my silver collection amps and cassette decks.

Hunt55

It's always surprised me to hear that so many say the 99's are bass challenged.
I have two pairs connected to a mere SX-950 80 watt per channel receiver in my garage and the bass is more than enough, even using just one pair.

Maybe my 47 year old ears don't hear right?

I mean they don't punch out bass like a Realistic Mach One but for my ears they are far from bass defecient.

Guess that most of these guys have a system in their cars with 1000 watts driving a pair of subs.
Thump....Thump...Thump....

You cannot imagine how much better the Pioneers [or anything else] sounds with these.

Hunt 55--you mention a Pioneer svc center in Baltimore--do you happen to know where it is/name? I may need to get my 980 tuner aligned.

Nortonrider said:

Hunt 55--you mention a Pioneer svc center in Baltimore--do you happen to know where it is/name? I may need to get my 980 tuner aligned.

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Sure. It is Just Audio http://www.just-audio.com/7907 Harford Road
Baltimore, Maryland 21234 410-882-4360. An easy ride and they are an exit off 695 at the top of Baltimore.

They take their time and will let you know straight scoop. Usually takes three weeks to get you an estimate and about another three weeks depending on parts. If it is a completed item, I also bring them a copy of the service manual. They did a super job on a Pioneer CT-F1250 and CT-90R cassette decks for me. I have also had them bring three Pioneer amps up to spec.

Hunt55