Audiokarma.org
Audiokarma Featured Sponsor

Go Back   AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums > Solid State


We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-08-2009, 06:06 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
Kr-9600 ta-200w

I know this has been asked before at one time or another, and I've searched this forum, but there are too many responses to sift through.

I'm looking for a couple TA-200W chips, one if nothing else. I've got one of these that was passed down to me, so to speak, and it blew a channel. I'm pretty sure its this chip since it seems to e one of the weak links, but I don't schematics either so I haven't really troubleshot it either.

Any help, advice or information would be greatly appreciated. I know someone here has been down this road before, and I'd rather not reinvent the wheel if I don't have to.
Thanks
Z
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-08-2009, 06:12 PM
Blue Shadow's Avatar
Blue Shadow Blue Shadow is offline
Swapping Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SE PA
Posts: 10,018
You should find one here, Number 5.
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=158338

And welcome to AK. Hope you hang around awhile and talk tunz and gear.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-08-2009, 06:32 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
Thank's for the response Blue, but that is the Vintage Solid State Guidelines section, unless I've said something that breaks those rules...or maybe I'm too retarded to figure out what you were referring to in number 5, both are possible. :lol:
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-08-2009, 06:45 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
LOL! OK nevermind, it's been a long day sorry....number 5...gotcha! So I was correct about being too much of a retard to read between the lines; my appoligies to all offended.

I'm used to using other forums where people don't really give a crap where your from, who you are or anything else, they just answer questions.

I'm JD, I live in Vancouver WA, I'm a MRI engineer. My dad has been in many bands and is all about the sound of all music. His brother bought this reciever in the late '70s I think and it was the best money could buy; from what I'm told. He always had to have the best, whether or not he used it...LOL!

Time went on and I was living in Nevada, he asked me if I wanted some Hi-Fi stereo equipment, and I said sure. So I get this thing and think..."hi-Fi? WTF?" I store it in my closet for a while until I reloacted to WA. Once I was there, I started to get my home machine shop together and needed some tunes. I brought this monstrosity out, plugged it in and found out what it really does. WOW! Nice stuff. I took it apart and checked it out inside and out (I've got and Electronics Degree) and this thing is amazing! Such craftsmanship back then. I work on a lot of stuff now and it's all just thrown together. This thing was assembled by hand.

Anyway, recently one of the channels has blown, it crackles and works sometime and not others, so....I finally got fed up last night and started searching for common failures online, found the TA-200W was a pretty common failure, and found this place. It's really similar to another forum I'm a member of.

Me personally, I'm an Engineer, I've been restoring cars/hot rods since I was six. I have a home mahine shop that I run on the side for fun and a little extra money. I'm married, 2 kids, hot wife, play Xbox 360 online, ride ATVs and make a lot of custom billit parts for them.

That about sums it up, as I said, sorry for the "using" people on here, I didn't really expect anyone to care; and I didn't read the guidelines...LOL! I get focused on the task at hand and set out to complete it, and along the way, i ignore everything else around me; or so my wife tells me...LOL!

As said before, I'm not looking for a free set of schematics, or free parts, just some help to save this reciever from being dead. If someone needs custom machine work, let me know I'll be glad to help out there too.
Thanks
Z
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-08-2009, 07:59 PM
EchoWars's Avatar
EchoWars EchoWars is offline
Lee Ho Fook's or Bust
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 25,419
Your full intro should go in the 'Introductions' forum, but it is welcome nonetheless.

There are many failure modes for those output IC's, but if you're getting sound out of it sometimes, then chances are the issue you are experiancing has nothing to do with the module itself. Most vintage pieces from the mid to late 70's and on into the 80's (and much modern gear as well) have a dedicated protection circuit that monitors both channels for issues. If a problem is detected, both channels are shut down. Yes, there are things that can go wrong with the module that will not trigger the protection circuit, but the odds are heavily in favor of your problem being one of dirty pots and switches impeding the signal (or a flaky speaker output relay...the 9600 has one for each channel).

The TA-200W IC is fairly unobtanium. Sources are pretty limited, such as another 9600 which is being parted out.

You can eliminate the 'dirty pots and switches' part of the troubleshooting process by removing the 'preamp-out/main-in' jumpers and feeding the 'main-in' with a volume-controlled signal as a test (volume controlled, or else you'll blow out your ears, the amp, your speakers, or all three).

The 9600 is not too forgiving of errors, due to the rarity of the output devices and it's overall complexity. If a general cleanup doesn't take care of it, and you determine that the amp section is indeed the problem (unlikely, from your description, but possible), I'd consider having a professional look at it. If the pro balks at the unavailability of the output devices, look elsewhere or contact me.

If you're looking for a manual, consider these guys:
http://www.stereomanuals.com/
http://www.vintageaudiomanuals.com/
__________________
"Any dangerous spot is tenable if men--brave men--will make it so."
- John F. Kennedy, Radio and Television Report to the American People on the Berlin Crisis.
July 25, 1961
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:19 PM
Ausjoe's Avatar
Ausjoe Ausjoe is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South of the Colorado, Texas
Posts: 3,408
Welcome zebradog and don't be a stranger. Echowars would be a superb choice for a repair. Try some deoxit on the pots/switches first. Even if it doesn't solve the problem they probably need cleaning. Use sparingly and let dry. Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:21 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
I blew the thing out with compressed air and it started working again, and I thought it might have fixed it. The next night, the left channel stopped working again. I left it running on one chanel for some background noise while I machined some parts, but every now and then it crackled really loud and then it would shut off. Once it came back on fully normal, then shut off again. I've got an Oscilliscope and a Fluke 87 meter, so I can do a fair amount of troubleshooting, but I guess I need a schematic to really go farther. The only ones I have seen were $50 and that seemed like a lot to spend on a diagram.

Those relays you are talking about, are they almost right in the middle, as you look down on top of the amp with the case off? Square, black, look like hermatic relays, right next to another set of transisters mounted on big heat sinks? I don't know if you know this system that well, but I thought I'd ask. I saw them there, but had no idea what they did. Hermatic relays are notorius for going bad.

When you mention pots, which pots and where are they? On the main board next to the relays I'm talking about?

One last thing I forgot about; there's a few bulbs blow on this thing, and they are soldered and blank, no ratings. Does anyone have a suggestion on a replacement bulb or a place where you can get the parts to solder back in?

Lastly, I'll repost the majority of my introduction in the appropriate section. Like I said, I'm part of a few forums and they are all right to the point. Most people are so competitive and trash talking that it ends up being a very introverted experience.

Thanks for your help
Z
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:22 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausjoe View Post
Welcome zebradog and don't be a stranger. Echowars would be a superb choice for a repair. Try some deoxit on the pots/switches first. Even if it doesn't solve the problem they probably need cleaning. Use sparingly and let dry. Good luck!
Where do you get it from?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:34 PM
EchoWars's Avatar
EchoWars EchoWars is offline
Lee Ho Fook's or Bust
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 25,419
Parts Express, an AK sponsor (link at the bottom of the page, with all the other banner ads).

As a test, you need to run the receiver from another volume controlled source. If you can't find one, just pull the jumpers out (power off first!) and see if the noise and grunge continues.

I'm not aware of any manual resellers asking $50 for a 9600 manual. The links I sent are from two of the best guys in the business, and I don't think either one will ask for that much. But the guys who sell vintage manuals keep this hobby alive, and whatever they ask for a manual is a bargain as far as I'm concerned.

I've worked on many 9600's (and have two of them right here), but I can't seem to recall whether the relay board is on top or the bottom. Age. It'll get you too.

Your saying that the relays kick out (protection tripping) from time to time is not a good sign, but not fatal. But, if the module is not bad, these DC pulses causing the protect to activate can make it bad, and your problem will go from annoying to disastrous.
__________________
"Any dangerous spot is tenable if men--brave men--will make it so."
- John F. Kennedy, Radio and Television Report to the American People on the Berlin Crisis.
July 25, 1961
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:47 PM
dr*audio's Avatar
dr*audio dr*audio is offline
Fish fingers and custard!
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Posts: 15,803
I believe this receiver has separate power supplies for each channel. Bad solder joints on one of the regulator transistors would take out one of the supplies, and cause a loud pop, and the protection would kick in. Get the manual, and start checking the supply voltages with no speakers connected. Further hint: apply some electrical tape to your meter probe so that only the very tip is exposed. That will help keep you from shorting things together and blowing things up, if you slip with the probe. You might want to look at the supplies with a scope. If there is a bad solder joint somewhere, or an intermittent transistor, it may show up as a very noisy supply.
The service manual is only $16.00 here:
http://www.servicemanuals.net/Servic...1/results.aspx
Their copies are very good.
__________________
Warren
"Hugh: Don't touch me, I'm a doctor.
Judge Maxwell: Of what?
Hugh: Music.
Judge Maxwell: Can you fix a hi-fi?
Hugh: No, sir.
Judge Maxwell: Then shut up!"
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 01-08-2009, 08:56 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
Every time I shut the thing off it pops out of the speakers. When you say run it from another volume controlled source, can I plug in an ipod into the jacks and control the volume from there or do I need another reciever to do that?

I'll hit those other guys up for a set of schematics.

i've also got a set of custom made dental needles for DMM probes covered with about 5/16" in shrink wrap. Oh yah, I've shorted out som poer supplies before, not fun. LOL! Thanks a lot for the help.

Here's the only place I found the schematics and the price.
http://www.manuals-in-pdf.com/advanc...;forward=plist
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:28 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
Does the service manual you are talking about have schematics or is it just a service manual? Will it walk me through troubleshooting?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-08-2009, 10:13 PM
LBPete's Avatar
LBPete LBPete is offline
Rolling Along
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 8,740
These service manuals are written for professionals. They may have a basic trouble tree but not much more. They will have detailed schematics, parts lists, board layout diagrams, alignment and adjustment procedures. All good useful information. Often all that is needed is a good thorough cleaning of the controls. Get a Caig product called deoxit 5 and have at it.

- Pete
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:45 PM
zebradog zebradog is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 22
Great thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-08-2009, 11:58 PM
EchoWars's Avatar
EchoWars EchoWars is offline
Lee Ho Fook's or Bust
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 25,419
The 9600 uses the front panel indicator lights (Phono, Aux, Tuner, etc...) to draw off the cap charge on the speaker relay circuit. If you have a lamp burnt out, such as the Tuner, and power down with 'Tuner' selected, you'll get a turn-off thump because the lamp isn't there to drain the charge quickly enough.
Quote:
When you say run it from another volume controlled source, can I plug in an ipod into the jacks and control the volume from there
I don't own one of them things, so I can't say for sure, but I'd think that as long as you have full control of the output level you certainly should not cause any damage.
__________________
"Any dangerous spot is tenable if men--brave men--will make it so."
- John F. Kennedy, Radio and Television Report to the American People on the Berlin Crisis.
July 25, 1961
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:06 AM.



Friends of Audiokarma
We appreciate your help in keeping this site going.
Black Swamp Audio
Amps and Sound
Sonneteer
Organ Donor Parts
Sound Stage Direct
Parts Connexion
AudioClassics
Atlantic Systems
AV Solutions
Take Five Audio
Tone Arm Audio
Audio Salon
Musical Paradise
Audience AV
Classic Sound Repair
Simply Speakers
McIntosh Cabinets
BD Enterprise
Cabledyne
Howard Products
BOI Audio Works
FM DX Antenna
Amplifiedparts
Siliconray
RSL Speakers
Vinyl Magic Record Cleaner
Salk Sound
Grant Fidelity
Urban Antigue Radio
Yesterday's Audio
Many Moons Audio
DeWick Repairs
The Tube Store
Vintage Electronics Repair
Audio Doctor
Politicalchat.org
MCM Electronics
Antique Radio Classifieds
Herbies Audio Lab
Videokarma.org
   
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ęCopyright 2002-2014 AudioKarma.org, All rights reserved.