Flea powered 45 triode amps... what speakers?

Inamelotone · Feb 4, 2009

Hi folks
A friend of mine is thinning down his collection and I am very tempted to buy a pair of 45 tube monoblocks from him (Welborne DRD types). Trouble is these are a rather modest 1.8w, so not exactly powerful! I have successfully used 300b amps before, but they were 7w or so, that's four time as much!

My 'reference' speakers currently are Klipsch Heresies (from '67 so probably not quite as efficient as the modern version), which would probably work ok, but I can't help thinking that a few db's of extra headroom wouldn't go amiss...

So what would you guys recommend?

Thanks again for your thoughts
Inamelotone

djnagle · Feb 4, 2009

I think the Heresies would work if you are not trying to bring the house down. The other option is the use a pre amp that would increase the input to the 45s a bit. I use a 6SN7 line stage in front of my 26/300B amp. The other option is to use old altec or JBL horns for the mids. Those are all fairly high SPL and the 45s would not have any problem driving them.

Coytee · Feb 4, 2009

I had a pair of Transcendent SE-OTL amps on a pair of Khorns. The OTL amps were bridged to 4 wpc. They were the best sounding amps I've yet to hear, but I chucked them because I (personally) coudln't live with just 4 watts available to me.

I'd expect Heresy's to sound more like little table top radios with that kind of power.

I should preface though... I DO like to turn it up and feel the punch of a kickdrum every now and then so the little SE-OTL's were at a disadvantage from the start.

I'd personally suggest you go up in speaker size/efficiency if you can. I will soon be getting a Viva 300B and a pair of Quad II's in my hands to play around with. I'm looking forward to putting them on my HF horn and see how that works (I biamp now).

Cut-Throat · Feb 4, 2009

Inamelotone said:
Hi folks
A friend of mine is thinning down his collection and I am very tempted to buy a pair of 45 tube monoblocks from him (Welborne DRD types). Trouble is these are a rather modest 1.8w, so not exactly powerful! I have successfully used 300b amps before, but they were 7w or so, that's four time as much!

My 'reference' speakers currently are Klipsch Heresies (from '67 so probably not quite as efficient as the modern version), which would probably work ok, but I can't help thinking that a few db's of extra headroom wouldn't go amiss...

So what would you guys recommend?

Thanks again for your thoughts
Inamelotone

I also own a pair of Welborne 45 SET amps - Very Nice! - I use a pair of Klipschorns with mine. I have modified the Khorns to use an Altec Midrange horn.

What is your friend using for his main system? Speakers and Amps?

mhardy6647 · Feb 4, 2009

oy, so many good choices!

Cornwalls would be a better choice than Heresys IMNSHO for a couple of reasons (slightly higher sensitivity and the Cornies actually produce some bass). EDIT: Yeah, K-horns are worth considering too...

A pair of Altec 604 Duplexes (any series; I like the AlNiCo ones, but that's just me) would be a real nice match. Altec VOT family members would always be in good taste.

The famous (Mitsubishi) Diatone P-610 family of fullrange drivers are very nice with SE 45 amps. They're getting hard to find, though, and thus expensive.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/bostonbash99/

I've never heard my Fostex FE-207E twincone FR drivers on a 45 amp, but they're quite sensitive and I like them a lot; I suspect this would make a good, inexpensive pair of speakers for an SE 45 amp. Other reasonably-priced Fostex drivers and enclosures worth considering would include the "BK-16" kit from Madisound or Bob Brines' mass loaded folded TQWTs loaded with Fostex drivers (FE-166E or FE-167E, IIRC?). www.madisound.com http://www.geocities.com/rbrines1/

Better EV coaxes are worthy of consideration. Maybe a pair of 12TRX or 12TRXB in a "BIB" (bigger is better)? http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib.asp

or maybe a pair of EV 15TRX in a Karlson K-15... ?

EV Wolverine LS-12 or SP-12B on open baffles augmented with a nice efficient horn or ribbon/planar 'supertweeter?

I'll stop short of recommending any Lowthers/enclosures because IMNSHO they're just too idiosyncratic and picky for me to consider living with a pair. Pretty much ther sine qua non of sensitive FR drivers, though.

Is it Hawthorne that has nice looking FR/extended-range drivers these days...?

other useful links (?)
http://www.zillaspeak.com/zillaspeakspeakers.asp
www.fullrangedriver.com

EDIT^2... you can also always biamp and/or use a powered subwoofer

jcmjrt · Feb 4, 2009

I run my Welborne DRD45s with Altec 19s. The highs/midrange are really quite incredible and the bass is certainly adequate. I did have Cornwalls and used the 45 amps with them. The mids and highs were very nice but the bass in the end was a little lacking.

mhardy6647 · Feb 4, 2009

May I just mention that Altec Nineteens are certainly elements of the set of {Altec VOT family members}

Quite possibly one of the ultimate expressions of the genre.

Urizen · Feb 4, 2009

mhardy6647 said:
"BK-16" kit from Madisound

At approx. 95dB sensitivity, they would be marginal with 1.8 SE WPC, IMNSHO. I've had good results with 5 WPC SEP, and still wouldn't mind a few more watts on tap. Although I've never owned a 45 amp, I wouldn't have hesitated to use one of these "flea-powered" amps when I owned Klipsch La Scalas.

onplane · Feb 4, 2009

Inamelotone said:
Hi folks

Trouble is these are a rather modest 1.8w, so not exactly powerful!

So what would you guys recommend?

Inamelotone, have you considered bi-amping?? I mean, if you already own a powerful ss amp, why not continue to use it on the woofers.

Then, let your tube amp drive the mids/tweeters. Power requirements here are quite modest.

I'd recommend a pre-amp that has tone controls so that you can turn the bass control full OFF. This will give you some headroom in that small amp.

Regards,
Jerry

Inamelotone · Feb 4, 2009

Thank you all guys, plenty of food for thought. Bi-amping is definitely an option, and I have had a project brewing at the back of mind for some considerable time... which leads me to the VOT family of course, now you're talking, if only I had the space! Having said that a nice set of Altec 604s, now if I could find a good early pair at a reasonable price I would be tempted, they are such iconic drivers. I am not familiar with the Electovoice drivers so will look them up...

Cheerio for now
Inamelotone

klama2006 · Feb 4, 2009

Here are 3 efficient speakers I am very happy with.

1. Bottlehead Strait 8's.
2. Kinetic Audio Efficincys.
3. Tektons 3.1's

For the price, I truly love the Tektons.

How are you planning to use these amps? In a living room or office type of enviroment? I'm sure you would get different suggestions for the intended application.

mhardy6647 · Feb 4, 2009

I have a nice pair of 604Bs in the basement; someday I'll get enclosures built for them...

(Pretty much) all the info on vintage EV drivers you'd want at:
http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/

I have a perfectly, ridiculously, profoundly motley collection of EV drivers hangin' around downstairs. I grew up with EV speakers, so I have a soft spot in my heart for them. They're efficient... the best ones are pretty good. The lower end ones... well, they're pretty cheap

In all seriousness, there are some minor gems, like the Wolverine LS-8 twincone FR drivers, with AlNiCo magnets.

EDIT: As to efficiency (sensitivity), what's acceptable will depend considerably on one's taste in music, the size of the listening space, and how loud one likes to listen. I wouldn't discount 95 dB/W/m speakers a priori.

OK, let's see what's on Photobucket:

An EV LS-8 ensconced in an old Heathkit cabinet with the Heathkit's OEM Jensen RP-103 (16 ohm). This silly combination sounded pretty good.

Early EV 15TRXB being stalked by Zappa the cat. He failed to catch it.

Oh, here's one of the FE-207Es in a small bass reflex enclosure, complete with kitteh damper.

My "n = 1" Karlson K-15. This is said to be a good enclosure for a 604.

My other orphan Karlson-style enclosure (made by Pioneer in Japan), loaded with an EV SP-12B twincone.

Hope this is at least marginally helpful, or at least interesting...

(N.B. I do not pose the kittehs; they simply cannot resist novel (to them) hifi gear when it is on the floor.)

Inamelotone · Feb 5, 2009

mhardy6647 any suggestions are always interesting! Thanks again, I am intrigued with all the EV's you mention but they are rare here in the UK (sorry I should've mentioned that's where I live). Come to think of it the bass drivers on my vintage Heresies are EVs...

Anyway, I think I will ponder the biamping idea. The project at the back of my mind involves Vitavox HF drivers and Klangfilm down below, hmmm...

For info I haven't committed to buying the 45s yet, the lady in the house is not too keen on me bringing yet more iron home!

dnewma04 · Feb 5, 2009

What speakers for SE 45 amps? Big ones, the bigger the better.

Flea powered 45 triode amps... what speakers?

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